Stories That Move

Andrew Morgan | Untold Stories, Unfolding Change

• DreamOn Studios • Season 1 • Episode 37

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A single conversation in an airport changed everything. Andrew Morgan—award-winning director of The True Cost, The Heretic, and Long Gone By—joins us to share how a documentary made in a season of grief set him on a path to tell human stories that cut through noise and shift culture. We get candid about why certain ideas won’t let go, how to find projects that scare you in all the right ways, and what it means to make work that’s truly worth someone’s time.

We dig into the craft: documentary as the art of listening, scripted storytelling as the art of speaking, and the power of blending both. Andrew talks attention spans without the doom, making short-form that leads to deeper experiences, and his steadfast love for theaters as spaces where phones go dark and imagination opens up. We also wrestle with tools and trends—from AI to shooting on film—and why adding intentional friction can make the work more honest, more beautiful, and more alive.

Then we go story by story. The True Cost, a decade on, still exposes fashion’s hidden human and environmental toll and proves that storytelling can be a catalyst for change. Long Gone By reframes immigration through a mother’s fierce love, challenging us to see people over policy. And Ultra, a short salvaged from a COVID-canceled feature, shows how failure can become a meditation on endurance, friendship, and meaning. Andrew hints at a new documentary love story he believes is his best work yet.

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Andrew:

I made a film that was actually the first documentary that I ever made that I I made in the wake of a a tremendously difficult season in my life. And then I'll never forget we we released it and I was in an airport uh a few weeks later and someone came up to me and just had this kind of like you know, tears in their eyes moment of this this thing that I had made had been really helpful to them. And we we had this really beautiful conversation. And I just thought like that's that's pretty magical because like the film, like making that particular film in in a way really like kind of saved my life in some ways.

Matt:

Andrew is an internationally recognized, award-winning director known for his deeply human and visually stunning storytelling. He's the founder and creative director of Untold, a Los Angeles-based storytelling studio, and the filmmaker behind The True Cost, The Heretic, and Long Gone By, among many other productions. His work has been described by the New York Times as gentle, humane investigations, and by Vogue as proof that storytelling can be a catalyst for change. In this conversation, we explore Andrew's creative journey, the power of story to shape culture, and the hope that drives his work to build a better tomorrow. Let's dive in and welcome Andrew Morgan to Stories That Move. Hey friends, welcome back to Stories That Move. I'm your host, Matt Deuel, and I could not be more excited about today's episode, an episode I've been looking forward to for a very long time. First off, special co-host today. Got my firstborn son, Caleb Deuel, with us. How are you doing, Caleb? Doing great. Happy to be here. Yeah, man, good to have you. Caleb is one of our new cinematographers and editors here at DreamOn Studios. And we are welcoming in a guest that we just know and love dearly, just a longtime lifelong friend, Andrew Morgan, director, cinematographer, just amazing all-around guy, coming to us live from his office and studio in LA. Andrew, welcome to the show.

Andrew:

Hey guys, great to be here. This is fun.

Matt:

Absolutely. So Andrew and I go way back. Um, man, I have known you since before you were like in middle school. Um if I'm remembering the timeline correctly, back in Georgia. And so we had an opportunity to connect on a number of fronts and uh then eventually work together as business partners for a season, which was incredible. And uh and then you headed out to LA uh to just dive into some incredible work. So just introduce yourself a little bit to our audience, um, share a little bit about yourself and what you're currently up to in the world today.

Andrew:

Sure, yeah, this is fun. You're by the way, uh you were, among many other things, the first person to ever put a camera in my hand back when I was, I think, 15, you did a production company in Atlanta. Uh, and I still remember the advice you gave me. It was such good advice. You said, Um, don't ever zoom in and zoom out in the same shot. And I can't tell you over the years how I'm like, that's pretty, that's pretty solid.

Matt:

Pretty solid. Pretty solid.

Andrew:

Yeah, I'm uh it's it's so fun to be talking to you, man. It's like come full circle. I yeah, I'm a I'm a director. Um uh I lead a team of storytellers here at a small studio in Los Angeles called Untold. And we make a lot of stuff that we care a lot about, uh a lot of documentaries, some scripted stuff, um, some branded stuff. And uh yeah, we've been we've been at it here in this iteration for more than a decade now with a kind of growing little team of people that uh we've been all over the world with. So um yeah, really, really fun to uh to get to to talk to you of all people about this.

Matt:

Yeah, no, man, that's so so awesome. And no, I definitely, you know, remember, you know, some of those early moments and you just standing out to me as a kid that just had immense amounts of curiosity and uh you you tended to gravitate towards some of the the tech stuff, picking up the cameras and the microphones and those sort of things. And so uh so yeah, just amazing to see um how you took some of those early days and just some of those natural instincts and have really shaped that into an awesome career. And it's really fun for me and to have Caleb with us today, because I was thinking about this today um as we were kind of setting up for this, that one of our first big documentary projects that we did together, uh Caleb was like, I think about a year old, maybe 18 months old. Your firstborn son Cole was with us a few months old. Um and so now to have him sitting here at the beginnings of his career, launching into just storytelling, um, yeah, I just thought it would be a cool dynamic for you guys to just just connect in terms of just love of storytelling and some of those pieces.

Andrew:

Yeah, Caleb's so talented. I mean, I comment on an odd amount of your posts and stuff because I think the stuff you're making is so cool and it's so cool to watch you come together. And it is funny, I feel so old saying this because old people used to say this to me. But I was there, I mean, I came to see you guys, Matt, in the hospital with with Caleb. And so it is like surreal and wild that you're now like in the world making stuff, and I love that you guys are working together. It's so cool.

Caleb:

Yeah, thank you for the support. Yeah, I've been enjoying it and definitely inspired by your stuff.

Matt:

Awesome, awesome. So, Andrew, we want to talk about Untold and definitely some of the projects that you guys are working on. Um, but before we get there, you know, rewind just a little bit. Tell us about life growing up for you and you know, just some of those early days and some of those early moments. Um, you know, you mentioned the moment I helped put a camera in your hand, but what were some of those early storytelling moments where you started to fall in love with just the idea of helping people to tell their story?

Andrew:

Yeah, I mean, some of this is like so painfully cliche, it's hard to talk about it. I I was like that kid sitting on the end of my bed watching E.T. And I remember, you know, just crying my eyes out. And I couldn't, it was like a magic trick to me, you know, that I really wanted to understand. Like I couldn't, I couldn't get over the amount of emotion that was evoked for this completely made-up alien, you know, that was like clearly not real and clearly not human. And yet I was having all these thoughts and feelings. And, you know, I picked up a VHS camera and went in the backyard and started making short movies and um shot a bunch of stuff with neighborhood kids. And I I just really loved it. Like it was the first and still to this day, only thing that's ever like made sense to me. And at the same time, it was something big enough that I felt like you could devote your whole life to it and you would just scratch the surface. And I think the the intersection of those two things has been what's kept me so hooked ever since. And really, like at the end of the day, it's it's really not gotten that much more complicated than that. You know, like I I got out of high school and came out to LA to go to film school and um, you know, started to to experience and learn from some people who were just like miles and miles ahead of me, and that was exhilarating. And we kind of, you know, stumbled into uh, you know, making these projects, and and and really the stuff that we're making at Untold now isn't really all that different. It's like that feeling where you feel like something kind of grabs hold of you and and won't let go until you see it through, you know, and um sometimes it's because it's really scary or challenging or feels impossible. Sometimes it's because you really want to do something, like you see it wrong, or you see something that you really want to shine a light on. But really, it's so fun. I mean, I still feel like I'm very similar to that kid in the backyard. I'm I'm I'm constantly still trying to figure out you know how to do it and and how to make things that um, you know, are hopeful and helpful and uh in in an increasingly uh challenging time in the world, I think. So um yeah, it's exciting, man. I I still love it. I I was thinking about it when I was getting on here this today. Like I I I genuinely still love it as much as I did um at the at the very beginning of it all.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. No, that's awesome. So for you, I mean, you and I grew up, um, you know, I was again that that moment we connected, I was a camp counselor, you were you were a camper, and you know, um, so I have a few years ahead of you, but you and I both kind of grew up in an era pre-social media. And so even just what it meant to make something and get it out there for people to see was a little bit more complicated. You know, it's kind of more like grab the family, get them in the living room, and just be like, oh, cool, we get to watch another one of these things. Um the poor family. Exactly. For you, do you remember a moment, maybe that first moment where you created something that it was like, oh, I I've got something here. Like I'm I'm really proud of this and just excited, you know, kind of getting over maybe some of the nerves of what it meant to release it.

Andrew:

I think that the moment that really stands out to me is um I made a film that was actually the first documentary that I ever made that I I made in in the wake of a tremendously difficult season in my life. And I I made it as kind of a way to understand uh and make sense of uh a season of really profound uh grief and loss.

Matt:

Yeah.

Andrew:

And I had a really meaningful time making that film. And then I'll never forget um we we released it and I was in an airport uh a few weeks later, and someone came up to me and just had this kind of like, you know, tears in their eyes moment of this thing that I had made had been really helpful to them. And we we had this really beautiful conversation. And I just thought, like, that's that's pretty magical because like the film, like making that particular film in a way really like kind of saved my life in some ways. And then to to like the added bonus or the added gift of like it had been, you know, understood, uh, much less seen, but like, you know, maybe helpful to somebody else, um, was really, really powerful. And I I still think all these years later, that's still probably the most amazing part of this whole thing is that like, you know, our lives are all so different and unique, and our experiences and our stories are so specific. And yet, I think the reason that we all are drawn to great stories is our lives are all so very interconnected and very similar. And the feelings that we've felt and the experiences that we've had, the losses, the wins, the joys, the heartbreaks, it it kind of continues to amaze me how similar they all are. And I think that moment of releasing that first uh documentary, like in that way, was was that moment for me. And that that kind of like hooked me, you know, like I was hooked on like I could go chase my curiosity and I could go experience a lot of life in the process of making something, and then we could share it with the world, and and maybe, you know, if we're lucky, it it could be helpful to someone else. I'm I'm I'm still kind of hooked on that part of it, you know.

Caleb:

That's awesome. Yeah, I think we talk about that a lot here at Dream On is just like the power of video and just how it connects so many people and tells everyone's story, and it just a very powerful thing.

Matt:

Yeah, absolutely. So for you, um, you know, as as you look at, you know, just the different projects and different things that come across your desk, um what are you looking for? Like what's what's kind of some of the the moments of inspiration for you of like, yes, that's I want to chase after that.

Andrew:

That's such a good question. Um in some ways, the projects that I've chased after have all been very different. And I think in in some ways that's um uh on a soul level, uh I think that's been to my benefit. I think maybe professionally you could question that as a business plan. Because I part of what I'm drawn to is I want to go, I want to go chase after something that I've never seen before, and I want to go into an area I've never been in before. And it's not very exciting for me to do the same thing twice. You know, like we've had a couple of projects that have you know really found an audience and had some traction. And and with those projects, there's always like, you know, a handful of like do that again, but like in our world, or do that thing you just did. But so some of it is the uniqueness of like it has to really feel unprecedented to me. I think it also has to really scare me on some level. It has to be something that pushes um like what I'm capable of, both from like a just a craft level, and then also pushes um, you know, just on on like a story level. And and then I think the other thing is just like I'm increasingly interested in characters or topics that are like unique windows into or unique perspective into something that we all have in common. So to that point that we were just talking about, it's like I think at their best, stories are like a unique way to look at something that we're all trying to get a better perspective on. Like we're life is not very rational, you know. Like it's not, I think human beings try to we we try to convince ourselves. First of all, we try to convince ourselves that we're singular and we're not. We're massively group uh creatures by nature. We like to think of ourselves as very like singular and all my perspectives and all my ideas are just mine, and I came to them on my own. And then we also like to think that we're rational and we're not, we're emotional. So I think for me, uh great stories are like a way to make sense of the world that we're experiencing, you know. Like I I still go to the movies because I have a hard time processing my life in real time. It's just it's coming at me really fast. And there's a lot to be concerned about, and there's a lot to be excited about, and there's just it's just like too high a frame rate. You can't process it. Yeah. And so I think sometimes for me, like if I'm looking for something in a story, I'm I'm looking for a unique sameness, like a fresh way of looking at something that maybe gives us some more perspective. Um and and also like, you know, the the the the really like unspeakable mystery of of all of this is that at the end of the day, it's a chance for us to like step into someone else's shoes. I mean, I'm I'm amazed the more I get to travel and the more I get to experience in my life how small my experiences are. Um, I mean, there's billions of us on this planet. Like the the the the actual lens that I have is tiny. Like I I have I have this one body and this one life and this one set of friends and this one family and this one set of trips that I've gone on. So when I when I watch something or read something or anything, you know, like this, it's this free pass to to step into someone else's shoes and come away with a perspective that is bigger, to come away with a perspective that is deeper and more rich, or maybe just more nuanced, or maybe less black and white or less clear. So I think that's the last piece I'm always interested in is like, where's where's the nuance? Where's the shadow in between the black and white? Where's a a chance to see something we've seen before, but maybe we're seeing it with like a a new dimension or a new respect.

Matt:

Does that make sense? Oh, it totally does. No, and I, man, just so resonates. With me, and and is the thing that I love about you know the work that that we do um collectively, of there's just always been the power of when you set up a camera in front of somebody and you convince somebody to sit down in front of that camera and open up their life and share their story. Um it's just it's just rare that I don't walk away, just uh blown away by that person, by that story, right? Because just like you said, it's like I'm stepping into the nuance of their story, of their life, and uh moving away from just some of the black and white and stepping into some of the gray of just you know where they're coming from and their background and their story. And and I just I find myself each and every time like this is such a gift that we get it's this precious thing that we get to carry and steward these stories and help tell these stories um for all varieties of people because so often it just connects me back to the fact of we are far more similar than we are different, right? And so when we live in a time that's uh more divided and ever, I think that's the most heartbreaking thing is to sit back and go, no, that's just not that's not our real reality if we could just get beyond some of the crap that we hear day in and day out. So so no, man, I I I really do, I really do love that. Um man, for you, you have I think just walked a really interesting, you know, line of documentary work as well as you know dramatic scripted pieces. Talk to me about that and just your passion kind of between the two things.

Andrew:

Uh yeah, I I mean I I see them as very similar. Like when we've done uh uh a couple of the scripted features that we've done, we've we've used a lot of non-actors, and I think we've we've taken a lot from the documentary side of things. And then same thing, like I'm I'm I just finished up a new documentary, and there's ways in which we're kind of doing things in in this new film that are a bit more like a scripted thing. So um I I like to think of them all as just movies, you know, and I I like to think of them all as like needing to be entertaining, first and foremost, needing to be interesting, um, needing to be beautiful, like they deserve to be beautiful. Um and I just think they're different, they're just different parts of my brain. Uh somebody said one time, like, documentary is really about listening. And when you write something, it's more about speaking. Like I'm writing something right now, and it's like I'm really trying to find a way to articulate something. I don't have that same feeling when I'm making a documentary. It's it's really like, can I listen to to this subject for you know a hundred hours and try to synthesize, you know, whether it's a portrait or whether it's a uh uh you know a deeper truth. Um so yeah, I I they're they both feed each other. They're both interesting. I think, I think in a lot of ways, like this whole art form is, you know, first of all, it's not that old, but I think it's just old enough that like we're kind of coming to the end of one sort of way of doing it. And we're at this really interesting fork in the road where there's like a lot of different aspects of it kind of splintering off. And I think, you know, people uh uh like yourself, Caleb, are in the midst of this. Like there's just this kind of like blurring of the lines between mediums and platforms and lengths and aspect ratios, and like I think documentary and scripted is getting a little closer in in some of those ways. So yeah, it's it's um it's super interesting. I mean, it's like nonfiction versus fiction reading, you know, or or anything else. Like they're they're they're different, but they're similar. And I'm constantly trying to get better at both. And by the way, that documentary thing, I I was gonna say this when you just were talking, Matt. Like, in addition to putting a camera in my hand, you were the first person that I ever saw interview people. And I remember uh I was like holding a boom pole or something, and I I was I I was really young, and I remember being really, really struck by how intently you were listening to them and like what a what a like really powerful, not only like human gesture that is, but what a powerful part of the work that is. I I mean I can't tell you over the years I've watched people like do interviews so poorly and they'll like read a question and then while the person's talking, they'll just like look down at their notes. You know, it's just like um you're really, really great at it. And and I I think it instilled that. And I I think that's kind of what the documentary stuff is. It's like the art of listening, you know, and it's and it's to your point the power of like listening when it's on the record, you know. People, the powerful things come out of people um when it's going to be saved. Um and there's a really mystical, powerful exchange that happens there. Um but yeah, you were the first I saw do it.

Matt:

No, I mean, I appreciate that. That means a lot. And also speaks to some of my uh child labor uh practices of putting you on the boon pole. It was it was a simpler time back in those days. It's like can't we use a can't we use a stand for that? No, I just have Andrew do it. It'll be great. No, he's fine. He's nice and tall, he can hold it up. That'll be great.

Caleb:

Uh that's awesome. I've definitely had those thoughts when I have to hold the boom pole here. Like, why don't we just use a stand? But I don't know.

Andrew:

You can feel the physical pain that comes through in the breath. That's right.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's just the rite of passage, part of part of growing up. Um so Caleb, I'll put you on the spot a little bit. Um, as as we talk through storytelling, I think a lot of what I've seen through my career, I know Andrew his is just the shifting, the the the reported shifting of attention spans of things needing to get shorter and shorter and shorter. Like again, I remember in the early days, you know, kind of late 90s, early 2000s, of like a promotional video is often like eight minutes. Like we'd make eight minute things, which today that sounds uh what does that sound like to you? Sounds really long. Yeah. And then it's like it became five minutes and then three minutes and two and one, and now it's like I think. Yeah, 30 seconds. Like I saw like on YouTube the other day some four-second commercials, and I'm like, how do you even make that? So so yeah, for for for you, for your generation, what do you think is that draw? And and then what are the times that it's just like, no, I actually we're gonna really get into the long form conversation or story.

Caleb:

Yeah, I think for us it's almost like it's like the normal thing is a short video. It's kind of like what we're used to. So like we always talk about like me and you, like, we argue over longer video, shorter video. And I think I think from like your perspective, I think it might just be the normal and easy thing. And like it would it becomes hard to think about cutting it down to 30, 60 seconds. But then for me, it's just kind of natural. And I think like I talk to some of my friends who also do camera stuff. We always talk about doing longer videos. Um or it's like you guys talk about doing shorter videos, it's like kind of two different things where one is more normal and one is not. Not normal, but like what you're used to. So like I feel like we're just like we've been driven to this shorter aspect, but we're always think of doing a longer video as something that's not normal, but something we're interested in. Like it's a challenge. Like it's a challenge, yeah, and something we want to branch out to, but like the video like the shorter videos are easier in a way.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So Andrew, for you in that uh just conversation of fighting for attention span, um what yeah, what what what are your thoughts in that and and how would you kind of encourage again just continuing to lean into longer form things?

Andrew:

Yeah, I mean, well, I think I'm trying not to be a person that like doesn't stop uh learning. I mean, the the history of this medium is history of of change, and and you know, the history of technology is uh a history of change. And at every moment along the road, there's been people that are like, no, it's not that way, it's this way, and they quickly get erased, you know. So I think I'm uh I'm I'm constantly watching stuff. I'm amazed, honestly, at the quality of some of the short form stuff. Uh it it can be just so powerful and and so so so cool. I think personally I'm always interested in if we're making something shorter that it's leading somewhere longer and and typically longer just because it it signifies something like in real life. Like I'm a I'm just a huge, huge um believer in in movie theaters. Like I just I go all the time, I love it. Yeah, I have a group of people that I go with all the time. I like talking about it afterwards, I like having a couple hours where my phone's off and nobody can reach me. I like my imagination kind of getting like that space where the guards can come down. And and for me, longer, uh a longer experience with other real human beings in the room is kind of magical. And I don't I I I I'm gonna be long on that forever. Yeah. I think the the the creativity for me then comes in, and I'm thinking about this a lot right now as we gear up for this new film. It comes in like how can we utilize all the other short form stuff and all the other platforms and all the creativity possible to to actually have that opportunity get on people's radar. You know, like it's not a given anymore that like the New York Times, you don't just like leaf through the New York Times film section and make plans for Friday night, you know? So I think it's like go to where people are, but then take them somewhere. I think where it gets circular and kind of just like an endless feedback loop of um not not great things is when it's all kind of like in its own vortex. Like it's just this attention tornado, like of like, can I grab you? Can I grab you? Can I grab you? I think like what we're trying to do in Untold is to say, let's carve out a path and a reputation both in the both in the industry and then also with our audience that we're known for making stuff that's worth your time. And then let's try to take sample-sized pieces of that and and deliver it to people, you know, where they are. And I'm, you know, I'm massively still learning how to do that. But I just think they don't have to be mutually exclusive, you know, like what Caleb's saying is true and right. And it doesn't have to also mean that, like I was just looking at some some research that people and Caleb's generation, even younger, are like really drawn to movies. Like they're like really drawn to like going and having an experience and live and in-person stuff, I think is gonna continue to see an upswing. Um, so it's kind of cool to think about that they could dance together, you know?

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. No, that's good. That's good. Yeah, and I think our our, you know, you know, in parallel to what you're talking about with Untold, I think our very similar spin on that here at Dream On is just trying to lean into authentic and and real, right? And I think it's the trying to not do the trend chasing stuff, um, not do, you know, and again, it's you know Galo and I have talked and laughed about this a lot, but it's like the some of the newer AI just like plug in a prompt and spit out. It's like I hate that stuff so much. I just I just do because it just feels there's such there's something that's so cool about like you're like, oh, I get it, it's kind of fun, it's cool, but then there's just like ah, but it's just not it's not real, it's not authentic, and it hurts my heart and hurts my feelings. So well, it's it's funny.

Andrew:

I mean, like sometimes like you know, I I think for me, like the joy's never been in the tools, it's been in like what you use them for. And that's sometimes why I get a little cold when people just kind of like nerd out on the tools. You're like, okay. It's like if someone was a carpenter and they're like, this hammer is so you're like, okay, like it's a cooler hammer, I guess, but like what are you gonna build with it? You know, like I think for me, it's kind of like what do you use them for? And also, like, I don't know, for me personally, it helps me sometimes when I'm making something to put things into the process that actually intentionally make it difficult. Like, I like to put things into the process that make it a little bit harder. Like we we just released this short film that we shot on 16mm. It's a documentary that's not easy to do. Um, it makes everything about the process harder. And it made it more meaningful and it made it more intentional. Um, you know, I write a lot of stuff out like in long form, like on a pad. Like I there's just things I do in the process. Steve Jobs had this thing about how like the circuit boards and everything inside a computer needed to be like perfectly aligned. And and his guys were like, no one ever sees that. He's like, Yeah, but we do. Like, I part of the mystery of this whole medium to me is I love making things that feel effortless and fluid and simple and easy. And then baked into that, there's like an enormous amount of energy and intentionality and difficulty. Like I actually think the rub and even the collaboration with people, that's why like, you know, some people kind of get off on being like all in one, like I write and produce and direct and edit and color and do sound and music. Like, I sort of live for the collaboration where like I'm working with people who are um oftentimes far smarter than me, uh, especially in their specific thing. And that push and pull and tension and And like, I don't know, all that like human stuff, you know, is what in the end makes it especially meaningful to me. So, you know, we use AI tools here, but like not at the expense of the parts of the process that are human and not always to make something easier just because we can, you know. I think that's just an interesting thing to wrestle with for all of us.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so let's let's chat about some of your work just a little bit, um, just a couple of different projects. So uh the true cost uh documentary that that you created. Um I believe this is the 10-year anniversary of the release of that. Is that correct?

Andrew:

That's right, yeah, this year.

Matt:

Yeah. So man, share with us a little bit about that project, how it came to be, and and just some of the momentum and movement that you experienced through that.

Andrew:

Yeah, I had this moment where I was uh getting coffee and I looked down at the newspaper uh in this coffee shop and I I saw this uh huge wall of missing person signs. Um, these two boys standing in front of it. And it kind of that photo grabbed my attention. I picked up the paper and I read about this clothing factory that had collapsed um at Rana Plaza in the country of Bangladesh. And what really grabbed my attention that morning standing there was that it, you know, reported that at the time of the collapse, the factory had been making clothes for major Western brands, brands that I knew, brands that I had bought clothes from. And I just had this sort of chilling moment realizing that I'd never really stopped to think about where my clothes actually came from. And I took that article back to my producing partner and we started doing a bunch of research. I started calling a bunch of people who were actually working in different parts of uh that industry around the world, journalists, you know, different folks. And it it just sort of like grabbed me. Like it just was one of those things I couldn't shake. Like it was so fascinating how this thing I had never thought about was also interconnected and related to all these things that I naturally cared about, and also something that I interacted with every day. So we um we started a crowdfunding campaign. Um we got in touch with more and more people around the world. We set out to make this documentary. Really, I wanted to tell the story of you know where these clothes came from and specifically like what was the fallout, what was the unseen underside, like both on the human rights uh perspective as well as the environmental one. And um I I mean the process, like there aren't words really to do it justice. I mean, it was uh utterly life-transforming. Um you know, we we shot in I I think over 18 countries. We had this wild experience where we kind of zigzagged back and forth around the world. You know, in some weeks we'd be like on a fashion runway in London or Paris or Milan, and then that same week we'd be in a slum, you know, where where folks were you know working their hearts out trying to make the most basic ends meet. You know, we'd we'd be at a design studio in New York, and then days later we'd be um, you know, in a in a community that was like overrun with like cancer and all kinds of fallout from pesticides and you know, everything goes to to grow cotton. So it was um it was unforgettable and and and really uh kind of like it felt like kind of seeing behind a curtain. Uh you know, like you couldn't unsee it. You couldn't, you know, and and the whole thing was very powerful and personal because again, I didn't know anything going in. Like I was not a fashion person, you know. Like I think it it had the feeling in real time of like uh unraveling, like everything that we would get to like asked another question. Then that another question would ask another question, and it just kind of led us on this journey that um became very, very powerful. And and you know, we we we came home and put the film together, and um, we ended up taking it to the Cannes Film Festival, and Netflix was like brand new at the point, and they partnered with us on it, and it it got out there and it it had this really big impact. You know, it's it's really humbling and cool and powerful and um sad also at the same time. Like because it's the 10-year anniversary, I've been wrestling with this a lot, doing some interviews about it, where like in one way, I think the film became a real tool for people who had been working on this stuff, you know, long before and and and long after us. And I'm and I'm so proud of that. You know, like you've got screened in all these companies, headquarters and United Nations and World Bank, and all this stuff happened. I mean, it was like really wild. Um, but at the same time, you know, I think it's also sobering in the sense of how little has changed, too. You know, like I think some of the very harsh, unseen fallout from this constant consumption and really detached way that we live in relation to the the folks that make uh a lot of the things that that fill our lives is uh is is still really troubling. Um so yeah, that was like I think that was one of my first experiences, like making something that was so personal that that really changed my life so directly and also left me very humble, you know, and the sense that like some of these things are far bigger than obviously one movie. Uh and you know, we're one little piece and hopefully this kind of growing sense of awareness there.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. And man, just such such a powerful piece that again to me it it absolutely still holds up because to your point, there's just still so much work to be done in in that area. And I can just, you know, visualize this one shot that you have of just this crushing crowd, kind of back when you know, a lot of Black Friday today has kind of moved and changed and morphed a little bit and a lot more online, but like those days where it was just like the stampedes of people crushing in over these cheap garments and these crazy sales, and then just the juxtaposition of these families and communities across the world that are being ravaged by those consumer choices. And so, yeah, definitely a film that just yeah, had uh such a profound impact and something that I still think about, you know, to this day. So yeah, cannot recommend that one enough. And um yeah, so so good. Okay, so um jumping into um another one, uh Long Gone By, uh dramatic script piece that um you and and your wife wrote, and that we actually produced and filmed 100% here uh in our county, Casyasco County. And I got to join you um as an associate producer on that project, which was just more than an honor and just one of the highlights of my career to be to be a part of that project. Uh tell us a little bit about that.

Andrew:

Uh that's so fun, man. Yeah, I was thinking about that getting on here today. Uh I I I have such a uh uh warm feeling uh towards uh Indiana as a whole and and certainly every bit of that community that you live in for that very reason. I mean, like we we were writing that movie, and I remember calling you and asking about the possibility of it, and then you had me come out and and really like when we drove around, I remember we drove around scattered locations, and that really informed a lot of the script, honestly. I mean, like independent film is very based on like, is there a motel we can film in? Okay, cool. Let's write the motel scene. Um, it's interesting thinking about that film now, too. I mean, that that film you know tells the story of a single mom. Uh it's it's the story of a first-generation immigrant, and the lengths that she will go to to protect and push her daughter and her daughter's life uh forward in her lifetime. And, you know, it was really a desire to make something that just brought uh a lot more empathy and and nuance um to this very calcified, polarizing, abstract idea that is immigration. I had spent time that year with a lot of families that were going through uh really, really difficult stuff in this country. And, you know, instead of making something that just felt like, you know, a documentary that was just, you know, gonna play to a certain type of person, we were like, let's try to go make a movie and let's try to make something that's beautiful and interesting and thoughtful and gives you like a first-person experience, just if nothing else, than to say wherever you fall politically, uh, the minute we take humanity away from this conversation and and forget that these are real life human beings with children and parents and hopes and dreams and fears, just like the rest of us, then we've lost a part of our own humanity. And it's it's uh again, that one's a little haunting because uh yeah, we're still there. We're we're still we're still having a hard time holding on to the nuance in that that one.

Matt:

Yeah, absolutely. You got a little cameo in that film, Caleb. I did.

Andrew:

Yeah, that's right. You know what, you know what's funny, Caleb? You show up in that film, and I remember at the time Cole, my oldest son, was furious when he went to the premiere. He went to the premiere with us in New York and he saw that you had like a prominent shot, and he was just beside himself.

Caleb:

Yeah, it sounds like Cole. That was a fun summer, though, having them here and hanging out. And I still go back and look at the videos of us acting like we were in our own movie doing the skits.

Andrew:

Yeah, I still remember when you guys would come on set, like you and your siblings and all of our kids, and it was just like the bad news bears. Like we see you rolling up, and it was like, uh oh, here we go.

Caleb:

Yep, yep.

Andrew:

Such a good memory, man. And that whole I like honestly, that we've we've done that a couple times now, and yeah, you know, gone to a place and made a film like that. And that one just it stands out in terms of the love and the kindness and the generosity, and the I mean, I I feel like that community just bent over backwards to to make that happen for us in such a powerful way. And um, yeah, I just one of the like more pure joy memories for me of making a movie that summer. That was really special.

Matt:

Yeah, no, agreed, agreed. And I think I think for me, and and you know, again, you and I have gotten to work on a number of projects together. It's it's you know, and that one to me was just like the ultimate of the experience that you get to have as a crew making a movie. Uh there's just nothing like it, you know? And I think that's where you know, as I've grown in my career and different experiences, like my love for anybody that's able to get a movie out and done. Like I'm just so proud of like, great job, you did it. Like and sometimes it's like, yeah, not not every movie's great and not everyone turns out, but it's like I have such a I think appreciation for what it means to to put something together because I know the heart and soul that was poured into it, and I know the crew that just did the crazy long hours and did the all the just incredible magic tricks to make all these things happen. And so so yeah, man, that that really was. And and it was so fun to have in our backyard. And we actually recently rewatched the movie as a family, and and just just so cool to just continue to see. These are the places we still drive by every day and we see and just feel like, ah, that's where we shot that scene, that's where we did this thing. So so yeah, super, super cool. Okay, well then um you also your your your most recent release, you put it out on YouTube, uh, a documentary short uh called Ultra, um which is just so cool and also heartbreaking at the same time because you had bigger plans for for Ultra, and Mason and I were gearing up to join you and the crew in Hawaii to be a part of the bigger thing. And um man, COVID kind of messed that up for everybody, but uh you still put something together out of the stuff that you had filmed, and I was just so pumped when you did and so proud of you and your team for what you put together because you still managed to just make such an impactful film um even in that short time frame. So talk to us a little bit about that project.

Andrew:

Yeah, so uh five years ago, uh just over five years ago, I started work on what was going to be a feature-length documentary. I had been really interested in these ultra-endurance athletes, people who are doing just absolutely absurd distances. I mean, like stuff that you can't even like get your brain around. Um, I was just super interested to figure out why they were doing it and what drove them to do it. And I got word of this event taking place, invite-only event called the Epic Decca, that they were gonna be doing 10 Iron Man distance uh triathlons over the course of 10 days spread out around the Hawaiian Islands. And that's like almost a two-mile swim, then a 112-mile bike ride, and then a marathon every day for 10 days. And in between that, you're navigating your little team and your gear to the next island. So incredibly limited sleep, just insane. Incredibly problematic on every level of the human condition. Um, so I got in touch with uh a handful of the folks who were doing this event, um, and they agreed to let me document the process. And so we started filming a year out from the event, and um, you know, in their homes, in their training sessions with their families, uh, you know, uh incredibly intimate stuff. In the process of leading up to the event, COVID happened, and the event gets uh pushed. Initially, it was just pushed, and so they keep training, you know, like they they're doing marathons on treadmills in their living room, they're installing swimming machines on their balconies and swimming for miles, like just insane stuff. And as COVID unfolds, it keeps getting pushed, and and they it's really just very, very difficult to keep that level of training. So a couple got injured and the event ended up not happening the the way that we were planning on it. So it was heartbreaking. I mean, I definitely it was one of my favorite things that we had ever started, and I'd never really had a film like that start and not finish. And I didn't know what to do with it, honestly. Like I both physically and emotionally didn't know how to process it. And you know, at the time, there were far, far more serious things happening in the world. Um, but over time, it was just one of those things that I wanted to finish somehow. Like I wanted to sort of um I wanted to do something with the footage that we shot. I wanted to do something to honor, you know, the stories that they had shared. And it was really powerful. Like going back and and editing together this short film that we just released um was really, really powerful. And it's, I mean, it's the, I guess in a super simple way, it's the ultimate, the journey is the destination story. Um, but it is a reminder of to me how even you asking about those films, it's like I do kind of organize my life by those films. It's like, that's the year we made that, that's the year we made that. That's and yet when I think about those things as time goes by, it's funny. I don't think about like the end thing anymore. I think about like all the laughter, all the incredible grueling travel, all the incredible early mornings, late nights, those friendships. I can think of which film I met this person or I met that person, and now they've become like family to me. Um, so it was kind of cool. I think the process of making this short was just that reminder of like life really is what happens while you're chasing after the stuff. And it's also kind of a reminder to not take it so seriously, you know, like at the end of the day, the people that you're making things with, um, the experiences that you have, um the memories that you make, like that stuff is equally as powerful, if not more, you know, than the movies or the projects or like what whatever it is in the end. So yeah, it was cool. It's kind of cool to like actually make something that was um in a way an admission of failure, like in a way, a sense of saying, this isn't always easy and it doesn't always work out. And you know, it's easier said than done to like follow your heart and chase curiosity. Sometimes it's really difficult, but even in that difficulty, if you let it, you know, it it can it can teach you all kinds of beautiful things.

Matt:

Yeah, awesome, awesome. You took a chance to watch it today. Any anything that hit you as you were watching that? Yeah, yeah.

Andrew:

What if your response was like, what if you're like, is it locked? Like, is the cut locked?

Matt:

I have I've got a couple notes.

Andrew:

I have a couple notes, but I just wanted to know. That's my favorite thing, by the way, to say to someone at like a film premiere. Like, is it locked?

Caleb:

Are we that's funny? But yeah, I loved it. I mean, I think the color was honestly one of my favorite parts of it. I think that it's just uh such a beautiful story, the way you use the color, the sound, everything. I just I'm glad you still made something um from all of it. And yeah, it was a really beautiful story. Thanks, man. It's awesome.

Andrew:

You got it, Caleb, you gotta shoot something on film one of these days. That's that's a direct challenge. You would I think you of all people would really love it. It's so fun, dude.

Matt:

It's so fun. Yeah, it looked really cool. So cool. So cool. Well, we uh gotta wrap up our time here in a couple minutes, but what are you working on now as you're looking towards the future? What are you excited about? Something that you're able to share with us.

Andrew:

Yeah, I mean, I'm uh we we just finished up this new film. It won't come out until next year. Um, it's a real life documentary love story, which is something I've always wanted to make. Um I'm not supposed to talk a ton about it, but I do think it's the best thing that I've made. I think uh we've been working on it for the last couple years, and it has a whole lot of what's been on my heart uh wrapped up in it. Like we we we we just finished it and it is um special. I don't know how else to say it, it's really special. Um so I'm I'm kind of right now I'm in that kind of in-between place, to be honest with you. Um it's an interesting moment when you finish something you've been working on night and day for a couple years, and I'm trying to watch a lot of stuff and read a lot of stuff and uh you know, set my sights on on something new. Um I think I'm as I'm as excited about this stuff as I ever have been. And I think the the more I do it, the more I'm just really trying to figure out. I think especially after it feels like our team has really gotten the hang of it here recently. I'm just trying to figure out what we can point that to. You know, that's that's the most helpful and what we can make that is um that adds something, you know, that really adds something to the conversation and doesn't just make a lot of noise. So yeah, it's funny. Every time, every time I finish a film, I'm kind of like, I that's it. That's all I have. Like I I put it all into that one. I don't have any other ideas. Uh and I've been here before. So it's it's a season of kind of recharging and and and resetting a little bit.

Matt:

Yeah, no, that's good. That's so good. So for folks who are listening who are interested in connecting with your work and untold, what what's the best place for them to go to to see some of that?

Andrew:

Yeah, our site is untold.la, and then on Instagram, it's untold underscore la. Um, and you can you can find all of it there. The you know the films kind of move around on different platforms and stuff like that. So if I said anything, I'd be saying it wrong. Uh ultra, ultra, the new short is out on YouTube for free, so you can see that right there uh from our site. And um yeah, love to have you uh check out the stuff. And we we're gonna be putting some new stuff out in the spring that's from some other directors and our you know, some stuff as our team kind of continues to grow. So we'll we'll link it all there from Untold.

Matt:

Awesome, awesome. And we will put some links up in our our show notes as well. But yeah, man, as we close out, just um wanna thank you so much for your time, your generosity to join us today. And man, just thank you for the work that you do. You know, I'm just I'm so beyond proud of you and just love you a ton. And I'm every single time you put something out, I I just race to the uh the play button or you know the opportunity to go see it. Um, because I just think you are so uniquely gifted at telling incredible stories around humanity in a way that are so compelling. And I think again, in a season and in a world that's very, very divided, I think you lean in and you come right in at the center and you ask amazing questions and you pose incredible challenges that I think, regardless of political affiliations, regardless of background things, you can look at as a human being and say, that's worth my time. I need to consider that. This is something worth thinking through. So I just I love that about you and and your style and just cannot recommend your work enough to our listeners. So um, so yeah, get out there, watch some of Andrew's work and some of the stuff that he and his team are doing. Uh, you will not be sorry that you did. So, Andrew, thanks a ton.

Andrew:

Let's just record a podcast every day. I could live like a week on that. That's really nice of you. But I'm having a down week. I'll call you, I'll say, let's let's record. I I love you too, man. And I seriously, our our my my whole journey started with you, and I I I I think of you every single step of the way, and I think the stuff that you guys are doing at Dream On is incredible, and I think the team you've built is incredible, and I think the spirit in which you guys make stuff is is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, incredibly special. So it's mutual, and I constantly feel grateful, and I never zoom in and out on the same shot ever. It's not a thing I do.

Matt:

Well done. Good job. Good job. Awesome, man. Well, thanks again, and to all of our listeners and viewers, thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Stories That Move. We'll see you next time. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Stories That Move, brought to you by DreamOn Studios.

Mason:

Make sure to subscribe so that you don't miss the next episode. And remember, if you or your organization have a story you're eager to share with the world, DreamOn Studios is here to bring that story to life.

Matt:

Don't hesitate to reach out. You can find us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, or visit our website at dreamonthstudios.io. We understand how overwhelming it can be trying to bring your vision and story to life, but that's why we exist. And we've walked alongside hundreds of clients doing that very thing.

Mason:

We believe every story has the potential to inspire, to move, and to make a difference. Let's make yours hurt. Until next time, keep moving forward and keep telling those stories that matter. Take care, everyone. We'll see you next time with Stories That Matter.