Stories That Move

Rachel Sheerin | Spark, Burnout, Joy

• DreamOn Studios

Share episode

Burnout doesn’t start with apathy—it starts with caring so much that you disappear. We bring in keynote speaker and burnout expert Rachel Sheerin to unpack how overgiving becomes a quiet habit, why resentment creeps in when service turns into expectation, and how to choose joy as a daily practice instead of a performance. From childhood scripts and firstborn pressure to the moment a laptop meets a window, Rachel traces the patterns high performers know too well: doing more, asking less, and hoping the next win will finally feel like enough.

What follows is a practical roadmap back to yourself. We redefine joy as happiness without an audience, then map the small decisions that restore it: identifying “energy buttons,” consuming with clarity in a world of constant inputs, and building boundaries that protect your best work and your best relationships. You’ll hear how to say no with “I know,” why givers need limits because takers rarely have any, and how stepping back can create real growth for the people around you.

We round it out with community: choosing a round table on purpose and only taking advice from people you’d trade places with in that domain. If you’re an entrepreneur, leader, or anyone who cares deeply, this conversation will help you swap martyrdom for meaning and refill your capacity without losing your edge.

FIND US ON THE SOCIALS:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dreamonstudios.io
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DreamOnStudios574
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/dreamon-studios/

Rachel:

It's hard to live a joyful life around unjoyful people sometimes. And it's it's hard to admit that joy is on the buffet of emotions that are required for a rich life. Joy and love and happiness and fulfillment and peace. The counteractive side of this, the counterbalance of living this life is pain and regret and risk and fear and grief. And we're all hanging out here together, you know? I sparkle for sure. And I also slumber.

Matt:

Hello friends, welcome back to Stories That Move, brought to you by DreamOn Studios. I'm your host, Matt Deuel. Today we've got a special episode for you. I'm joined by an amazing friend of the how, Keith Sampson. Keith is a serial entrepreneur and business owner, founder of the Warsaw Growth Summit, and a purpose-driven thought leader known for his powerful message to go through it or grow through it. And together, we get to sit down with someone who is all about helping people thrive at work, at home, and in life. Motivational keynote speaker, burnout survivor, and joy advocate Rachel Sheerin. Rachel has made it her mission to help high performers discover what truly drives them, build teams rooted in unity and authenticity. And most of all, avoid burnout while creating success that actually matters. She brings humor, honesty, and vulnerability to every stage she steps on. And I know you're gonna love this conversation. So let's jump in and welcome Rachel Sheerin to Stories That Move. Welcome back to Stories That Move. I'm your host, Matt Deuel, and I have a special co-host with me today, Mr. Keith Sampson. Welcome back to Stories That Move. Thank you. This is an absolute pleasure.

Keith:

Like, seriously, this is uh Yeah, not just a great way to start the day, but this is this is a highlight.

Matt:

So excited to have you back. Um if you missed it, Keith joined us, gosh, what was it, over a year ago?

Keith:

Yeah, it was recorded in uh March of 24. Yeah, yeah, and then aired shortly thereafter.

Matt:

Yeah, so excited to get caught up with you. But today, you have brought a really special guest with you, and I want to let you take a moment to introduce her.

Keith:

I have. Uh I am so incredibly blessed to introduce Rachel Sheerin. Um she is caffeine for your soul, as I like to uh call it. Uh, there aren't many people I've met out there in the world and especially that do it so authentic in a way to like energize a room, energize people, but they can also sit one-on-one and and still transfer that same kind of uh energy energy and excitement.

Matt:

Amazing, amazing. Well, for our listeners, for our local audience, not only are we excited to have Rachel today, but we are thrilled she's gonna be with us live at the Growth Summit on November 6th, and we're gonna talk a little bit more about that later. Yep. But Rachel, welcome to Stories That Move.

Rachel:

Thank you so much, Matt and Keith. It's so good to be here. The only thing that would be better is if we're together, maybe there's a bloody Mary Mimosa bar to the side. We'll be together soon. Soon, soon. Thanks for having me.

Matt:

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, hey, to kick us off, just tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you do. What are you up to in the world today?

Rachel:

Yeah. Well, as I like to say, my name is Rachel Sheerin, like Ed Sheerin, but different. And, you know, in my professional life, you'll see me online as a burnout expert. That's a hard-earned title I'll talk about later. Uh, I'm a professional keynote speaker and MC. And what I'm really curious about in the professional world and in our communities is why hardworking people work so hard that they start to lose the joy in their work. They start to become resentful or professional martyrs. They start to live a life that's incongruent with the person that they really are. And why we as a society, as teams, as organizations, as parents continue to pay a price we know is not the right one. We we pay time, we exchange our time and our mind and our energy and our focus for things that we hope will pay off later without enjoying the ride of it. And I would like to say, you know, Matt and Keith, I think you both are great examples of this. I think people who care very deeply are at risk of burnout. That's what the research shows. If you don't care, you're not at risk. But if you care too much, that's really who I live to serve. Because caring too much changes the world. And have y'all noticed, we need some more change. We've had a lot of change.

Matt:

Yes.

Rachel:

But we keep, we need to keep the change going. And so that's why I'm hanging out professionally. I think personally, anytime you're in Charlotte, North Carolina, I would love to host you, show you my favorite barbecue spots or the best view from one of our Blue Ridge Mountains that are only an hour or two away. But, you know, I'm definitely a dog mom, super passionate about my family. Can you tell I love a good margarita? You know, a an amateur mixologist is maybe where I would put myself there.

Matt:

Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

But yeah, professionally and personally, I have to tell you, I like to say in my keynotes, I am the luckiest person you will ever meet. And I hope that you all and everyone listening tries to compete with me for that title. I'm a really, really lucky, grateful person.

Matt:

Oh my goodness, what a cool thing. Wow. Okay. Yeah. I can attest to that from the times I've been able to spend with Rachel. It's yes, yeah, so good. Well, and as I was, you know, just rereading through your bio and some of the things this morning, I was so grateful that you're here this morning in this timing. Because, like you said, we we are living through some hard times, right? Just a lot of darkness, a lot of heaviness, a lot of things that lead to just burnout and frustration and division and all that. So I just thought, oh my goodness, what a gift to have someone who focuses on just passion and joy like you've talked about. So it was really excited to dive into that. So rewind just a little bit for us. Tell us where you're originally from, what life looked like for you kind of growing up, and just would love to find a little bit of the path that brought you to who you are today.

Rachel:

Yeah, the path that brought me to throwing laptops through plate glass windows as I quit my six-figure career. We can get there, Matt. Love it. No problem. Um, you know, I joke, I joke about it, but you know, I have and I have a wonderful family. I grew up um being the oldest. Some people might say the smartest, others might say the bossiest of three kids in a big Catholic Italian family. I grew up in New England. I don't have the accent and I don't love the sports team. So if you were gonna boo me, don't worry about it. Um I'm an Eagles fan, which is probably worse. But um, you know, growing up, I was one of the adults. I really wasn't around a ton of kids. Um, I was the first grandchild in a big way, and I loved my childhood. You know, I would watch reruns of Seinfeld with my mom. Um, you know, we'd spend the summers in uh the Midwest with my grandparents, and life was really good. And then as life happens as a child, you're starting to, you know, you just are kind of going along. Your parents start to change a little bit, and it typically is related to three big things, right? Your marriage, your money, or something nobody saw coming, right? And and for my family, it was money. There was a money problem really going on from maybe about eight, nine, 10. And my parents did something I think really, really smart. Um, they had another kid. Uh, and then they had another kid, okay, right? And well, my brother and sister, I couldn't imagine life without them. We call them Chardonnay and Merlot. That's how they must have arrived in the world. Um they, of course, added to some stress, and we moved down to North Carolina. And so during that time, the reason I bring it up is because I processed all of that. I have come out of the womb, really processing um stress as fun and excitement, change as opportunity and newness that I crave. Um, I thought of life oftentimes as an adventure, even if it was stressful. And looking back now, we all, I think, every single person I've interviewed for my book, uh, CEOs that I've spoken to, and celebrities I've interviewed on stage with my clients, all of us have a moment where we look back and say, oh, that was a big deal. And I didn't know it at the time. And my big deal, no, not knowing it at the time, was moving to North Carolina. You know, I um I have, if for those listening, if you see me in person, I have a perfect Roman nose. That's what my father always said, I had a perfect Roman nose. In the South, my nose is very different than other people I went to school with. Um, in the south, you know, I got on a bus and I come from a very small village in New England. I had not seen a black person in real life before my first day of fourth grade. Um, in in when I moved, my sister was two weeks old, right? I had been an only child for a very long time and was now starting to share the spotlight, be a mother's helper. All while my parents, of course, well-meaning, hardworking, loving adults, were trying to navigate a lot of stressful things on their own. And I look back now, and that was, I think, a big turning point because, you know, I have a saying, I have to, I, I personally have to make my pain have a purpose. And I think all of us have a choice to do that because what's not optional is pain in this lifetime. Have you guys noticed that?

Matt:

Yes. Like, yes, right.

Rachel:

The price of love is pain, is grief. The price of trying is failing. That's pain. The price of saying I want to or I want you is the risk of pain and rejection. And I think this is where I can see it very clearly. My pain started to have a purpose in that I was gonna be a high performer, that I was gonna be the bright spot in my family's life, that the phrases like, um, you never have to worry about Rachel, we're gonna start to come up, or um, Rachel, will you help me? And they knew the answer was yes. And I started to do that, you know, academically, at home. I started to um really do it with my friends quite a bit, my family members. And so what I did not realize then is I started working very hard to make the world around me better, easier, gentler, kinder, um, softer for other people. Well, pretty much ignoring myself. I I there was not a ton of focus on me at that time. And this is again, my parents were are and were wonderful people. Yeah. Um, but you know, parents, I have to tell you, Matt and Keith, I don't know if parents get any training. If so, we need to throw out the book, you know, it's like it's their first time or something. This is ridiculous. Um, and I and I joke, but you know, those habits, y'all, that that got me, I was valedictorian of my high school. Um, it got me scholarships to college. Um, I still went to community college during high school because it was free. Because, you know, at the same time, I'm money conscious. At the same time, I know that there's not gonna be a ton of money um around. There's no generational wealth here. If you're generational wealthy and you would like to adopt me, I'm available at 38 years old. Call me. I'd love to have some generational wealth given to me. What am I gonna be for me? And I will tell you that I went on like this for a very, very, very long time through um college, through um, you know, moving to Philly and wanting to go to Villanova law school. Turns out to be a horrible lawyer, to uh my dad's MS diagnosis and me moving home to help raise my siblings, um, you know, to honestly throwing laptops through plate glass windows. You know, I I would have sworn that I told you and I meant it, that I loved what I did and who I did it with and who I did it for, that I loved being a self-sacrificial lamb, that that I was gonna be Saint Rachel, patron saint of overachieving and making it look easy and never asking for anything, and that there were gonna be a ton of gold stars. And oh, by the way, I was gonna teach everyone that I was serving, including my boss, the owner of the company, because of course I treated all companies like I own them, uh, my spouse, my siblings, my parents, like the community in general. I was teaching by example, right? I was teaching by example how to be self-sacrificial so that it would come back to me. Oh, wait, that never happens. It never happens because sacrifice for others is a gift you should never expect return to you. Sacrifice for others is a gift you should never expect return to you. And I got to a point where I hated the people I worked with, and I hated the people I worked for, and I really hated the person I was being while I did it all. And um it ruined my career, but it's gotten me here now. So I don't know if that's resonating with you all. I see you guys kind of nodding and laughing a little bit.

Keith:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, one of the things I adopted a while ago is the idea of giving without expectations. Same thing, serving without expectations. And when you move into that place of uh eliminating expectations for your actions, it really brings it starts to birth this like internal joy that can carry you through those moments that you might want to throw a laptop through a window or a phone against a wall or whatever else, because it just there's a little bit more inside of you that you have left to give to carry you through those darker moments.

Matt:

Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. So for you, Rachel, again, I mean, just kind of to recap it, you s you are living in some stress, you are seeing some tension within your family. And so for you, subconsciously, you kind of rise up and say, Not on my watch, right? Like I I'm going, I'm gonna set the pace here, I'm gonna take care of things. Um I exceeded the job description.

Rachel:

That was never even given to me. How many times have we done that?

Matt:

Yes, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. So talk to us about the point that maybe it was kind of the aha moment or that the light came on for you of just like, oh, this weight that I have put on my own shoulders, it just isn't working.

Rachel:

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, um, in 2015, I got married. And as I like to say, I got married to the hottest guy I have ever met in real life. It was a real win for me. And I I loved it. And I didn't go on a honeymoon because it was busy season. I um took one day off after I got married. And I spent that day, by the way, in the orthopedic's office because I had torn my MCL at my wedding. And all I could think about was my client event. And at this time, I'm a um a meeting planner and sales professional at a small to medium-sized event planner. And one of the things that came up for me as I'm sitting in this office is I'm not thinking about how um this will affect my marriage. I'm not thinking about the words like surgery and PT and six months and crutches and brace. I'm thinking about my event on Thursday with Wells Fargo and how I'm gonna be able to exceed their expectations. And I can't take the day off, right? Because no one does it like I do it. And I think in that moment, if I was being really honest, I had a mirror moment. Maybe you all have had these in times where you catch just a glimpse of the person you're being, and you think, I don't love that, but I don't know what to do about it. So I'm just gonna toss that to the side. Just gonna toss that to the side. And what started to happen, Matt, over the next six months is I started to catch glimpses of who I was being versus who I said I was or who I wanted to be. Um, you know, I say, you know, show me where you spend your money and your time and show me what you value. You ask me what I value. I lead with my family, my friends. I lead with um, you know, generosity. I was spending no time with them. I went through the holiday season exhausted and resentful. I was snippy. I'm I was such a great new bride. I was snippy. How dare you make me go all the way to the beach to celebrate with my family Christmas? Oh, by the way, that was exactly what I had asked for. And yet, how many times, how many times do we ask for something? We get it, and we say, oh, this isn't what I wanted. This isn't what I expected, and then we just move right on. It was starting to have that pattern. How about we took a little mini moon in January? Guys, I was trying to be fiscally conservative. I got a gift certificate at a fundraiser for an organization we support. We go to Harris Cherokee Casino here in North Carolina. You should know I'm not a gambler. I've never been there. This is not an ad. This is also this is also not a one-star review because they could not control the snowstorm that happens. Oh man. The snowstorm happens and we I don't have a four-wheel drive vehicle, so I borrow one. I borrow a friend's Jeep. I take the trip that should have taken two hours. It takes four and a half. We see multiple reps along the way. We get to the casino. Matt and Keith, you seem like smart people. Is the power on at the casino or out at the casino? Yes, yes. For those listening at home, it was out. And so it was us, about five hardcore gambling addicts and about 20 staff members at this giant casino. It was like if Harris had sponsored the shining. It was crazy. We it truly, truly insane, guys. We would heat up, like they would bring us like vats of hot water to like pour into the bathtub for like small baths. And I I would like to tell you that there were some funny parts of this, but to be honest, I can't remember. Because that's one of the things, as I started to research burnout, a couple things happen when we start to escalate. Number one, we start being incongruent with who we are. Number two, um, this is something that is a phenomenon that really links us. Maybe you all have had this, where God, the universe, luck, whatever you call it, starts to intervene to try and slow us down.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

This is the injury that sidelines us. This is the diagnosis of someone we love or ourselves. This is the getting to a casino that you don't even want to gamble at after driving four and a half hours through the snowstorm only to discover the power is out. And I'd like to say that I quit my job the next day, but I didn't. I dragged everybody, including myself, through the mud for three more months. And what started to happen is I started to resent my clients every time they emailed me. I started to resent that the team members. How many times has this happened? It's, you know, for you guys, maybe people listening, I'll look at someone, someone that I hired, someone that I thought at one point sat across from me and said, Yes, you, potential, growth, attitude, you know, engagement. Six months later, you're like, Yeah. Were you always this stupid? Is this like a degenerative thing? What's going on here? I caught myself saying this about people. I love people, people I hired, I need them, people I care about as humans. I want to develop and grow them. I wasn't being the leader I wanted to.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And the reality is that, you know, eventually I just broke. You know, I was working so incredibly hard not to let anyone know I needed help. When I did ask for help, people were disappointing me. You know, um, I had thoughts in my head like, I I if I want something done, I have to do it myself. Or um, I can't trust anyone. Um, I can't let them see me sweat, especially being um a firstborn in the family, being a high-performing woman. You know, it's like the Fred Astaire Ginger Roger thing. I had it in my mind that I had to do everything excellently, both by the way, at work and at home, which is, I think, a big distinction. I didn't realize about burnout then, but I certainly see it now. Burnout, the World Health Organization defines it as um, you know, an epidemic in work where, you know, it's chronic fatigue and exhaustion and in a building of resentment. What the World Health Organization doesn't understand is for women, for minorities, for persecuted groups, for LG, BTQ, AI plus people, all of life is work. All of life is work. When I park at the grocery store, I have to think about the parking spot that I take at night. That is work.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And I don't, I don't, I'm not necessarily complaining about it, but I think we we don't acknowledge, you know, women especially are large caretakers in their communities. Um, you know, people who are volunteers are caretaking, people in different social services. They have an extra load. I mean, bless our teachers. You know, I've never met a teacher that says, I'm just here to teach a subject. No, teachers love kids, teachers love flawed, attitude-y, hormonal, disrespectful children and help mold them, thank God, into incredible, upstanding, and intelligent adults a lot of the time. And it takes all of us. So, I mean, it basically what happens is that a leader says something wrong to me and I do something extremely incongruent with my character. And I throw away my career, I do throw those laptops, um, I throw away my title, my friends, I throw away my mentors. Uh, I certainly abandon all the people that I promised I would lead them or help them. Um, you know, to my family, I'll I'm ashamed to admit, I didn't tell them for months that I quit my job because I wanted to figure it out. I wanted to figure out what I was doing and why I was so messed up. These are big air quotes before I admitted um something was up. And I'm really thankful because, you know, as I stand to you here now, you know, burnout is a cycle. It does happen throughout our life. That's that's the price of caring a lot. And I don't know about y'all, but I love caring a lot. Yeah. And one of the things I found out was that, you know, for me, and this is maybe where I differ a lot of times in my perspective from other burnout folks, like if somebody used to tell me, a well-meaning family member would be like, Rachel, breathe. I have been breathing since moment one on this earth. If you tell me to breathe, I I you I'm hearing swing, okay? And I'm not normally a violent person, but you know, breathing, okay, stretching, working out. Like I get it, I get it, meditate, journal, sure. All right. For gurus, for regular people, that can work. But what I really care about is well, what happened to the joy? Because joy, when joy leaves your work, it is easy for joy to leave your life when you're a high performer, when joy leaves your work. And I started to really claw back and understand why joy had left. And part of it was, you know, um, servanthood and servitude was the bare minimum expectation. And I was overgiving in my job without giving to myself, without asking for help or knowing how to receive it, without knowing exactly what I wanted or that could help me. And then also to admitting that I am a flawed, I'm a flawed human, you know, that I do need just as much help as someone else. And what's a really beautiful testament to, I think, many of those listening to your podcast is that when high performers and overgivers are supported, the impact is so immediate on yourself and others. It can't be stopped. I was out the other day and someone had given me help that I really, really needed. And I was talking to them on the phone and I got out of the car, and this woman stopped me in the parking lot and she's like, I just want to say, you're radiant. And it goes on the outside. We think we're all the world is very fake right now. You know what's not fake? Joy. You know what's not fake? Watch a teenager in love, watch a 70-year-old in love. All right, like you can't fake it. Watch somebody who who's faith and who's been filled up with spirit. You watch somebody who has taken a risk and they know it's scary, and they're here for it, and they're loving all of it. That that stuff, that joy cannot be faked. And one of the things I think the world is trying to do is distract us from the joy.

Matt:

Wow.

Rachel:

Right?

Keith:

Wow. Yeah. Can I jump in and uh I want to go off of something you had said and it got me thinking as somebody similar to you that is a giver, that loves to serve people. And maybe you can help shed some light on this, because I don't know if I've quite thought of it this way. Personally, I get so much energy when I get to give to others. Like it is something that fills my spirit, like fills me up. I go home pumped. It's a great day when I was able to do something for others. I think that's one extreme. The other extreme is when you're either in a workplace or at home, and uh that becomes an expectation and zero gratitude. At the other end of that extreme, it can become like a miserable like that same act given in two different things. And again, it's like giving without expectations, but then when it becomes the expected level and zero, you know, it's not like I give and expect a thank you, but when it becomes an expectation and repeating and repeating in a in a what should be a safe environment can become uh the biggest drain in your life as well. I don't I don't know if you've experienced that or can have any thoughts on that, Rachel.

Rachel:

Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's beautiful because we've all been there, right? Like I have been an incredible executive leader and awesome for my team, and I've been a bad daughter in the same day, and probably in the same hour. How about the text we used to send? I'm on the way. No, you're not. You're standing in the parking lot talking to that one coworker, and I can't tell who shuts up. You know, like these things that we do, I think you really highlight something really beautiful, Keith. And this was personal for me. I think on one side of it is to understand who we surround ourselves with really matters. When you are a giver, especially an overgiver, high-performing, giving person, servant person, and you are on an island, if you are in an organization where you are the only person leading by example, I am telling you right now that God himself, Zeus himself, all of the um infinity war people, you can tell I don't watch a ton of movies, every superhero assembled, whether you are DC or Marvel, if they if their powers combined, they couldn't fight it. They couldn't fight it because you can't do it alone. I think that that's one thing. A phrase I love to say is, you know, givers need boundaries because takers rarely have any.

Matt:

Wow.

Rachel:

Givers need boundaries because takers rarely have any.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And and by the way, your your taker could be a three-year-old that needs to take. I mean, three-year-olds, they say terrible twos. Terrible, there's something terrible about every year, I think, as a as a parent and a child, because they're complicated. And of course, they're wonderful as well.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So one of the things I think is is to really assess like whether you're on an island. I think looking back, that was not my challenge in my professional life. I think in my personal life, I was a little bit on an island there, right? And by the way, I had created the island. I put up some walls saying, no, no trespassing, you're not needed here. Um, no, no, no, it's okay, you know, and making it a little bit of a fun house to get to me.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I think maybe the other side too, if if you've experienced this, is the idea where when we talk about giving, um, when we focus on the gratitude of it, when we understand the giving starts with ourselves, leadership starts with ourselves. I have a gift giving problem. I will go out to any boutique or any airport, um, you know, uh overpriced shop. And every single time, I kid you not, guys, I see something, I think, oh, my sister would love this. Oh, my cousin would love this. Oh, my client from four years ago that I haven't talked to in forever would love this. And I used to buy it. And you know what used to happen? It used to sit in my house because I am incapable of going to the post office. I don't know why, but that this is a challenge for me. I'm gonna blame the ADHD. Like, but one of the things that I started to understand was, and and this is, I think, this is we're gonna talk about a physical item, but this can be an emotional item too, is that when we start to talk about joy and we talk about suffering and burnout and things like that, what we start to do oftentimes is we start to look at an object and say, oh, this is $25 I've spent on this object. And then we start to have the shame of waste that I'm wasting my time, that I'm wasting my energy, that I'm wasting um, you know, this moment, right? And I'm not giving it forward. Or if the item just sits in my house, that's a waste. And what we start to understand, at least through my research, is first of all, when shame comes to play, it almost extinguishes everything good in our lives. But the other side is that it's about the thought less the act. So now I text a photo of the thing I want to buy you to that person. I say, look at this, I thought of you. Cost me nothing. I never see the post office still, and it works instantly of how I was hoping it to. How many times do we do that? How many times do we have the best intentions? I'll pick up the kids from school, I'll grab milk on the way home, I'll take on this new project, which by the way, is not part of my job description. I will be getting no compensation for, and I will be sacrificing hours, if not hundreds of hours, time, stress, molecules, mental capacity for, right? How many times do we raise our hand and volunteer without ever understanding that we didn't have to? And by the way, volunteering and doing all that stuff, it robs people of the opportunity to learn. That's, I think, one of the biggest takeaways I had when I started to uncover a lot of my burnout is, you know, Keith, to your idea of, you know, when it's expected, you start to resent it. Well, I was expecting to always be asked to do stuff. If a project got designated or delegated to another leader, I'd say, why didn't you pick me? You didn't think I could handle it? You didn't think my ideas were the best. By the way, I did think my ideas were the best. And they weren't, because they were just all mine, right? I start to look back and start to piece it together that there was a lot of insistence on myself that I didn't I didn't really understand.

Matt:

Wow. Wow. I think what strikes me too, you know, is is you all talk through that is because, you know, I've experienced burnout for sure. Uh found myself in a hospital thinking I was having a heart attack. Um thank God I wasn't. Was in meetings and and interacting with people, people that I know, not you know, like the extra characters in your life that that roll through here and there, but people that I know and I'm looking across the table and I'm like, I can't think of this person's name. Like it's it's like I'm blacking out in moments where I'm like, I should know this, and I don't, right? And so and then all of the the emotions come into of like the thing that you love starts to become the thing that you hate. And then I think for me, again, as you as you mentioned, is somebody that high performer, someone who just deeply cares, somebody who wants to give their all. Yes, the job starts to suffer, but the people that are suffering the most are the people at home. Right? And it's most patients. Yes, yes, and and it's the and and and then ourselves, obviously, of like what we're doing to to ourselves. So um yeah, just such a such a wild thing of how we twist and turn ourselves into these situations. So so Rachel, for you, you hit a breaking point, you started to see some things. Um, what did turnaround look like for you?

Rachel:

Yeah, um, well, I will tell you the medicine that worked for success and feeling good my whole life did not. Pie performing, didn't making money, didn't. Um, title didn't. Um, Italian food, it started to taste not that good. It's when the pasta started losing its flavor, then I started to panic.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rightfully so.

Rachel:

And I will say, I, you know, what I did something very um rebellious in my family, and I went to a therapist for the first time after I had quit my job. I walked in, her name was Jenny, and I said, I don't want to talk about my family and I don't want to talk about my past, but I'm a workaholic and I think I need your help. And she didn't laugh. And of course, we did have to eventually talk about those things. Um, but one of the things that started to come out of that was really talking about um started talking about joy. And I have always been called a happy person. Uh, you meet me, you all see me here. Like I'm a sparkly person. This is how I was made. But joy, as Jenny defined it, is happiness, happiness without the reaction of other people. So it is something that you do truly for yourself. You are making yourself happy. And doesn't matter what other people think, doesn't matter how people react, right? Like looking at a a child having fun because you've brought them to Walt Disney World, that can be happy, but it can't be joy. And so we started to go down this path a bit panicked because I couldn't remember the last time I had done something for myself without the knowledge of being perceived, uh, or without the expectation that other people would say, oh, Rachel, you're so interesting because you like to read books, or oh, Rachel, you're so intelligent because you love to play board games and honestly win quite a bit of them, right? Family pride there. And it took me back, it took me weeks, maybe months, to figure out my answer. And one of the things I started to peel back, and one of the things that I encourage folks to do is look for their energy buttons. Energy buttons are things that when you tap it, you get uh you get energized by or you get exhausted by. And one of the things, you know, in going through life, when you know your energizers and your exhausters, one of the things for me was live music. And I thought back to a time when I was a teenager and there was a band that I absolutely loved. And the lead singer would say these things between songs. And it turns out that what he was doing, he wasn't just, you know, saying, hey, you know, Des Moines, you look great tonight. What he was doing is he was explaining this philosophy that he had about where he was when he wrote this song or what he was thinking about or the messages he was delivering. And slowly but surely I understood two things very quickly. Number one, joy was in um feeling seen and seeing others. So sharing that community and connection. The other part of joy was, you know, I grew up again, oldest Catholic family, very loudmouth normally. I'm a plus-size person, I take up space. I had been taught culturally and societally to remain small and not want the spotlight. That, you know, if I could just be a little quieter or if I could not um be so needy and things like that. Well-meaning, by the way, well-meaning people told me this because I probably was quite a bit as a five-year-old that didn't nap. But what I started to discover was I had a desire, like joy of being seen and seen, give me joy, but also too of having a bigger play in life. I wanted to be center stage. I liked to serve others, I like to make my pain have a purpose. And it started to culminate in could I take what had just happened to me and help someone else with it? And, you know, I think Keith, it kind of goes back to what you're saying. Like you do feel good. You know, you know, the antidote to my problems is helping you with your problem. Yeah. I mean, so many armchair experts will try and help you with your problems while they are sitting in a mound of just not good stuff for themselves. And yet, if you're good and you can help others and you can find that servanthood, I think this is part of the reason you have this podcast, is you've got a platform, you have the desire to do it, and you think if we can use the pain that we've had or the experience that we've had, or or the privilege we have to help others, let's go. Yeah. So to me, you know, big part is the joy piece.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

You we've all seen it. When people do things from a joyful place, um, and this is, I think, my favorite thing, um, tough becomes easy, hard becomes worth it, right? Lack becomes love instantly. Instantly. Yeah. And so you start to find your balance. So that's been my experience. What about you guys?

Keith:

Yeah. Um hearing you say that reminds me back to a point when um my dad, when I was 19, and my dad had been diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease, and he had it for a year and a half before it took his life. He was joyful with the disease. Right. And what I watched was a living example of somebody who exemplified the difference between happiness and joy. Like, nobody's happy that they're ill. Nobody's happy that they're dying. Yeah. Right. But he still separated that out and he made he was joyful. He was able to use that illness to help others, to inspire others, to positively impact others. And he felt purpose and fulfillment. And to your point, like through the pain, there was joy. There were, there was a reason that he was able to sit there and take this and do something positive with it in a way that is a large part of who I am and the story that I carry forward.

Rachel:

Um and I think the finale that lets you say that. I mean, his finale that he was writing is a joyful one. Because it could have been. I mean, it's and it is also, Keith, I want to honor, it was also very scary and painful and the unknown, and I know how close you are to your family, right? And yet that that icing on the layer, right? Or is it the molten core of the story? Is that joy and love? It's so cool.

Keith:

Yeah, and it and it really creates um the opportunity for it to even carry on beyond myself, right? Like the idea of legacy and everything else. And when you separate out, happiness creates these cool little moments, but that's usually where they stop. Joy carries forward oftentimes even beyond ourselves.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Joy, joy lets you know who you are and live life on purpose with being who you are. I mean, it's it's so cool. I I will share with you a couple years after I had quit my job, started my speaking business, you know, I was at an influx point. I it was really, really good. Things were going well, and my dad got sick. And uh, you know, six weeks later, we you know, we had to say goodbye in this lifetime. But I'll share with you this. I called up my three clients I had at the time. I wasn't speaking so much, I was doing more coaching and training. I called up three of these clients that I had had engagements with and was ongoing coaching with, and I called them and I said, Hey, I said, I'm not gonna be able to work with you. I'm gonna refund your $2,500, which at the time, by the way, was everything. I'd gone from making multi-six figures to making zero, and I had not built back. Uh, I was eating a lot of beans and rice in Texas peat at the time. Uh and I called them, and two of them were like, we completely understand. Don't give us back the money when you're ready, you know. And I just said, Hey, I don't know when I'm gonna be ready. They're like, that's okay. And I remember I had one client and she was like, I want my money back double.

Matt:

Oh.

Rachel:

And I said, Okay, can I can I ask you why? Now, mind you, I'm in like a hospital parking lot at this time. I'm standing out and it's a beautiful day, and this is maybe a week into my dad's um I see you said. And I said, Okay. I said, Can I ask why? You know, this is surprising to me, but can I ask why? And she's like, Well, you made a promise to me, and I really need your help for my business. And uh I remember taking a really deep breath, and you know, this cool breeze kind of rolls across my face. It's August in North Carolina, so cool breezes were not to be found. And I said, I completely understand, and and I'm so sorry, I've just made promises that are more important. And I gave her back double, which was fine, and I certainly wished her well. And y'all walking back into that hospital, knowing the joy that I was gonna have, you know, knowing that the Yankees game was gonna be on in 30 minutes and me and my dad were gonna watch it together, right? Knowing who you are, it makes it so much easier. Knowing your joys make it so much easier. Not if you get burned out again, not if the world goes haywire again, not if there are demands and high performance and goals and all this kind of stuff and all the unexpected happens.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

It's when it happens. Do you know who you are and will you decide from that place who you're gonna be? Because I'm a I that was the best $5,000 I have ever spent in my life was giving that woman her money back double and being able to be the daughter and the person that I really am. And I'm embarrassed to say, thank God it didn't happen five years earlier. Because you know what I would have done? I would have sent the text, I'm on the way, and I would have been resentful. I would have been resentful that it all falls to me. I would have been resentful that my clients don't understand, I would have been resentful that my leaders were disappointing me. And boy, oh boy, oh boy, the universe and God works in amazing ways. There's a there's a theory of time that says time isn't linear, it's on a circle, it's on a loop. And what changes, it nothing really changes. What changes is you. We go through the same opportunities to be a different person. And I was a different person, and I'll never, I will never make that mistake again because my body knows, my mind knows, my heart knows what's really, really important to me. I think, you know, Matt, you started this conversation off talking about the world being a little rough right now. Yeah. The world is really rough because there are a lot of people who know exactly who they are and they're they're living life on purpose. And I think they're really incongruent to who I am. I and it's up to us, it's up to all of us. We say that we, you know, we're lovers, we say that we're open-minded, we say that we, you know, um care about our communities. Good. Get out there, volunteer. You know, I travel for a living. Um, I'm certainly the first person to donate money instead of donating my time. And that's that's okay with me. But if if we're going to say this is who we are, we gotta find a way to joyfully give. And if you're not in the giving habit, uh find some friends like Keith and Matt, me. You know, when we roll through town, we will drag you through being generous. And it's generous to the person that checks in at the hotel, sure. It's generous to the person across the dinner table, it's generous to the person who doesn't look like us, sound like us, not because we're some saint, yeah, but because, yeah, it feels good to give and we all need the help.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I I don't know about you all, but yeah, I need it. Absolutely.

Matt:

Absolutely. But I, you know, I think for me, when when I think about being generous and being filled with joy, um, I think what comes to mind is I can only give so much out of the overflow of my heart and an overflow of a healthy heart and a healthy life. And I think the reality is that so often we can give and give and give, you know, in all aspects of our life to where we're scraping the bottom, right? And so we are doing our best to give, we're doing our best to be generous, but yet what we're giving is is just uh it's kind of crappy, right? Because it's just from the bottom, and that's where the bitterness I think comes in. And so I think for me, I've just become aware of I have to do the hard work, like you said, of whether it's going to therapy or spending intentional time on myself or or just going out for a long walk, whatever it is to just help fill it back up, to get me back to the place where there is some sense of reserve to to give from, to serve from. Do you find that for you? And and if so, what what is what does that look like for you? What does it look like to kind of refill?

Rachel:

Well, let me give you my favorite hack. Like this is like this is it's like that energizer and exhauster button. I always like to say consume with clarity, Matt. Consume with clarity. A study came out, I think it was a Harvard study in 2023. In six days in our current reality, in six days, we get so much information that a hundred years ago, that was our whole lifetime.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

We we now know so much. We get notified, we get tweets and news. Six days. No wonder we're exhausted. So if we let that sink in, we start to understand that we need to really consume with clarity. And Matt, I have to tell you, um, I will roll down the windows and listen to Jagged Edge, Let's Get Married, like all day long. That song, it brings me back to eighth grade. I'm slow dancing at the graduation with Troy Reagan. I think we're gonna get married. We don't. It's fine. Hi, Troy, if you're listening. Um consuming with clarity matters. There's a difference when you listen between Ted Lasso and Making a Murderer. There's a difference between when you call your best friend that loves you no matter what and has, by the way, seen you at your worst a couple times, uh, and you call your judgmental, um, you know, but sometimes well-meaning mother on the way home, right? There's a difference between going on that walk, right? Matt, going on that walk um with your kids, which, you know, it's it's like kind of going on vacation. Right. If you take your kids on vacation or if you go see your in-laws, that's not vacation, that's taking a trip. That's it. That's taking a trip at a certain age, right? It's understanding, you know, what feels like vacation. What are you energizing yourself with? Yeah. Because I I gotta tell you, I love Metallica and I love Enya in an equal amount, and I need that energy from them in different times.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And so I think, you know, to your point, one of the things I certainly struggle with is burnout. I I like caring too much, and that puts me at risk, which is why I talk about it. And I'm constantly doing my own research.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And so I think that consumption, knowing what energizes you, it's vital. I think the other side of it too is drawing on inspiration and understanding, you know, who you can talk to on your round table. I have a phrase that, you know, I don't ask advice. Like I don't ask advice if I don't want to swap places. So, you know, Matt, if if you are married and you have a great marriage and I respect your marriage, I'll ask you for marriage advice. Yeah. If you call your spouse a ball and chain, I don't care what you have to say about marriage. Now, you might be a multimillionaire who treats their workers really well. I might go to you for business advice, right? And these are things if we start to understand that the circle, you know, we have a bit of a romantic idea sometimes about our advisors and romantic love in general. Oh, they're my one true love. They're everything for me. Everything for you? No. That's a tall order, right? It's a it's the order I think we put a lot of times on parents. Parents want to be everything for their child. The reality is that community cultivates greatness. Yeah. I mean, it's part of the reason I signed up for the Warsaw Growth Summit, like to be together with individuals who want to grow and maximize their potential and be the best versions of themselves. Y'all, the inspirer needs to be inspired. We all need it.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So, you know, if you start to look around and say, okay, you know, who is my board of directors? Who's my knights of the round table here? What purpose are they serving? And can I let them know? You know, Keith is somebody I I definitely call um when it comes to spirituality. You know, I'm lucky enough that if I'm ever wondering or become start to become untethered from my purpose um or start to worry that I'm not being um one of the people that I said I really was. I know I can call Keith with understanding and love and grace. Keith will understand, he'll be vulnerable, uh, vulnerable enough to share with me his perspective or maybe some of his experiences. And he doesn't get off the phone and say, geez, talk to Rachel Sharon today. She's having a meltdown, lol. Right? I mean, at least that hasn't come up, Keith. Let me know. Let me know if I misject you this. But but the reality is, and I'm just gonna say this with love right now, there are people in my community that would do something like that. Not because I deserve it, not because I I've trauma dumped or anything like that, but because it's hard to live a joyful life around unjoyful people sometimes. Bang. And it's it's hard to admit that joy is on the buffet of emotions that are required for a rich life. Joy and love and and happiness and fulfillment and peace. The counteractive side of this, the counterbalance of living this life is pain and regret and risk and fear and grief.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And we're all hanging out here together, you know? I sparkle for sure. And I also slumber, right? We have a full range of emotions. So making sure you understand who your people are, what you can talk to them about. I I think that, Matt, I don't know about you, but you know, when you had your heart episode and and were kind of scared straight on on health stuff, yeah, and I'm just gonna say this for myself. I don't trust people who have been skinny their whole life. I came out and I was like, give me some meatballs. Like, I need to talk to people that understand every time I get up out of a chair, I make a little noise since I was about eight. Like I don't know how to explain this to you. And so if you find your people, I think it makes a difference. Have you guys maybe felt that as you've gotten older? You know when you're with your people versus you're at their own table?

Keith:

Oh, yeah. I mean, I what's funny literally yesterday I had two instances where it's very, very relevant, right? So I'm in this group uh led by Matt Goebel. Like we meet once a month of uh other Christian leaders, business people, and uh they challenged me. Like, Keith, two months from now, we want to hear what you said no to. You know, these people that you trust that you can be incredibly vulnerable with, even down to confidentiality agreements. Like, what are you gonna say no to? And hit like a like a brick. You know what I mean? Because it it's anybody can do anything for a certain period of time, but as high performers, we tend to stretch that period of time further and further and further where it becomes the norm as opposed to just a cycle. Um, the second thing was uh a meeting that I had, and I had the realization that there are people, just like I said, Rachel's caffeine for your soul, there are people that are toxic for your soul. And they may not, you may not even know it until later on. As you know, you meet people and they come into your life and they're in your community, they're here, or even sometimes the people that are the closest to you can become somebody who's incredibly toxic to your soul. Yeah. And um, and that's a difficult one. That's one that I'm still like wrestling with, just that idea of like, how do you deal with, especially the closer somebody is and they come to that realization? How do you still handle those people with love?

Rachel:

If you find out, Keith, let me know. You know, Keith, I will share with you a mentor of mine a long time ago. Um, I was having trouble saying no, right? High performers, people pleasers, the glue of communities. And uh she told me something I'll never forget. She goes, if you can't say no, say I know. I know I can't do that right now. I know I'd love to, but I'm not max capacity. I know because saying no, say no, I just there's something about it in my soul still today that I just can't even say no, thank you. I say, thank you so much, I'm good. Thank you so much, I'm all right. You know, thank you so much. No, you please go on the escalator. And then 15 people are like, someone go on the escalator. I, you know, saying no is really hard. So I don't know if that's helpful for you or anyone listening, but instead of saying no, you know, know yourself so well that you say, I know. I know I'd love to, yeah, but not right now.

Keith:

Yeah. No, that's such a great way to reframe it. Yeah. So good. So it's like a positive way to say no. That's genius.

Rachel:

You're still a yes person while saying no.

Matt:

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's so good. No, for me, I mean, uh again, just yesterday made the decision of just I'm d deleting social media off of my phone right now. And I don't know how long that's gonna be, but it's just the global conversation, the national conversation, it's just too heavy for me to carry. And I, you know, I get in these things of like, I want to know, I want to understand, I want to know how to make a difference, I want and it's just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like stop, stop. I need to make my circle a little bit tighter. I need to rein in my thoughts and my emotions. And I just think the the people that I I want to have an impact on the most are the people in my home and the people in my community. And I need to just shut some other things off. And so I right now I'm leaning into that and I don't know how long it'll last. Maybe it lasts three days or it lasts a month, or maybe, you know, who knows? But I just I know we have to make those decisions, whether it's a no or an I know for people, or we need to turn off some of the thousands of messages that hit us every single day. So, Rachel, for you, as we wrap up our time here, we do. We have a lot of entrepreneurs, we have a lot of high-performing people, we have a lot of people that deeply, deeply care. Um what would your words be to them before we get to see you live at the Growth Summit and you get to share some more? But today, what would your words of encouragement be to them?

Rachel:

Yeah, well, Matt, I think you actually, I mean, you did a great example here organically of saying maybe a final message for today is just that you're responsible for you. You are responsible. There is no one, no one who knows your goals, your dreams, your fears, your hopes, your desires, like you. And and working on being able to understand that it starts and stops with you. You want to prioritize 6 a.m. yoga? Go put it on your calendar, buy the membership, subscribe to the YouTube channel. You can do it for free. But no one's gonna force you to do it. That's gotta be a you thing. And I think this is, we're right now in an age of how responsible we feel for other people. That's what I hear when you're talking, Matt. And that in Keith, when you're saying, oh, about the people closest to you. You know, I feel responsible to help others. I feel responsible to bring them through the door of opportunity and wisdom and love and joy and light and peace, right? If I'm moving into the next room and it's a good room, I want to help people there. And what I often forget is that, you know, the responsibility I have to myself, it might feel foreign, it might feel hard because there's no outward proof that this is going to work. There's no outward validation that we're so good or we're so smart or we're so successful. And the reality is that so many successful people are living in a personal haunted house. They're scared of failure, they're scared of not being enough, they're scared of what the world is doing. And the reality is, is that if we take responsibility for building the mansion of our lives through our choices, through our intentions, through our actions, our words, our friends, our thoughts, our money, our time, if we start to take responsibility for that, you're gonna see the results very quickly. It's not gonna be the employee you hire that saves the day. It's gonna be the leader you are to the employee you hire that saves the day. It's not gonna be the perfect person you fall in love with and you get married. It's going to be the partner you are to the person that's compatible and you share values with that just so happens to be the hottest person you've ever met in real life. I love that for you. I love that for us, right? I think it's so often it is about it's about the other, but it's really about ourselves, knowing who we are, what we want, what brings us joy, and then being so able, so filled with joy that you're able to share it with others. Y'all, it's it's the responsibility of a lifetime. And great news. It feels good. It feels good. I think, you know, I can't wait to be together in November. But, you know, as we kind of wrap up, like Matt, you got to give us your mailing address since we're not gonna be able to tweet you or a DM you. And I love that for you because Matt, no one has to understand your calling. Yeah, like your calling is not a conference call. No one is supposed to understand it. You feel called to delete social media, good. Have a great time.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Here's what's gonna happen while you're gone. Good things, bad things. Cute dogs, kind of ugly babies, but everyone says they're so cute and says they look like the father. You know, that's all that social media is gonna be. All right, you're not gonna miss a thing. And and and Keith, you're gonna be able to say no, right? And this idea of a no or I know. Like your calling, only you understand that. The the people who benefit from you sacrificing yourself, they don't need to understand. The people that meet you and think, gosh, why didn't that guy give me overzealous, you know, beneficial, helpful stuff, even though he doesn't know me? Because that's who Keith is. Keith helps anybody, doesn't have to know your name, we'll never see you again. Keith is a helper, right? When when people start to really own that no one else has to understand, that's some freedom high performers need. That's some freedom we all need because we know we know what we want, we know who we are, we know what brings us joy.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

A joyful world is a better world.

Matt:

Amen. Amen. Yeah. Awesome. Well, Rachel, thank you so, so much. I I can't even tell you how much I needed this conversation today. So, uh, and I'm sure the same is true for our listeners as well. So until we're together here in just a few weeks in November, uh, how can people connect with you? What's the best place for people to find more of Rachel Sheerin?

Rachel:

Totally. Well, I would say all social media, but Matt, like you, absolutely not all social media. It is LinkedIn. I am on LinkedIn. So please connect with me there. It's Rachel Sheerin, like Ed Sheerin, but different. Um, or more importantly, come to the Warsaw Growth Summit. I would love to see you. And please send me photos of your dogs. And if you want to send me photos of your kids, I will tell you honestly if they are cute. So come find me on LinkedIn.

Matt:

Perfect, perfect. And so, Keith, for you, for our listeners, connect them to Warsaw Growth Summit. How can they be a part of that event?

Keith:

Yeah, the website, Warsaw Growth Summit.com. And to be clear, this is Warsaw, Indiana, not Warsaw, Poland. Yeah, you do get that every once in a while. Yeah, so WarsawGrowth Summit.com, uh, same thing, they connect with me on LinkedIn, and then we've got profiles for the summit on LinkedIn and and and Facebook as well. So um Yeah, we're just excited to bring this year is as a year two event. And uh it's one of those cool things because last year started something, and it's one of those it's not that this year is gonna be better because when you stack up the quality of speakers that take that stage, each person brings their own amazing, unique story, and people are gonna walk out of the room deeply impacted. So this year's gonna be different, and we just get to build on it continuously. So it's it's gonna be an incredible day for the community and for people like Rachel that are uh giving uh of themselves from the stage. Awesome.

Matt:

Awesome. Well, thank you both. This has been awesome, such a fun conversation, and we look forward to much more. And to all of our viewers and listeners, thank you for joining us for another episode of Stories. We'll see you next time. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Stories That Move, brought to you by DreamOn Studios.

Mason:

Make sure to subscribe so that you don't miss the next episode. And remember, if you or your organization have a story you're here to share with the world, DreamOn Studios is here to bring that story to life.

Matt:

Don't hesitate to reach out. You can find us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, or visit our website at dreamonthview.io. We understand how overwhelming it can be trying to bring your story to life. That's why we experience. We've walked a long time to do it.

Mason:

We believe every story has. And to make a difference. Let's make yours hurt. Until next time, keep moving forward and keep telling those stories that matter. Take care, everyone. We'll see you next time on Stories That Move.