Stories That Move

Karen Polkinghorne | Exploring Leadership Through Adventure and Innovation

• DreamOn Studios • Season 1 • Episode 14

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Join us for a captivating conversation with Karen Polkinghorne, president of Network Partners, as she takes us through her extraordinary career from packaging engineer to a leader in the orthopedic industry. Discover how Karen's adventurous spirit, embodied in her unique lifestyle of RV travels across the country, influences her personal and professional life. With insights into her leadership journey and the importance of adapting communication styles, Karen shares valuable lessons that are instrumental in achieving successful collaborations and career growth. Her remarkable story promises to inspire anyone looking to elevate their career path by going the extra mile.

This episode delves into the creation of a transformative training program for entry-level engineers in life sciences packaging, spotlighting the success story of Tyler Boyd. Karen recounts her experience in shaping novices into industry-ready professionals, highlighting the rewarding transition from consumer packaging to life sciences. We'll explore the intricate art of medical device packaging, emphasizing efficiency and sterility as key components that ensure patient safety. Through personal anecdotes, Karen reflects on her own career trajectory, illustrating the profound impact of strategic career decisions and the rewarding nature of life sciences.

Karen's narrative takes an unexpected turn as she shares the story of her ski accident and recovery, offering a poignant reflection on life's fragility. Despite the physical clearance to ski again, the mental hurdle remains a significant consideration, underscoring the delicate balance between adventure and safety. Coupled with this, Karen and her husband Chad's adventurous journey living and working remotely from their RV, equipped with Starlink, illustrates how embracing change can lead to exciting new experiences. Finally, we discuss the significance of soft skills in career success, providing strategies to develop emotional intelligence and communication competencies that can set you apart in today's tech-reliant work environments.

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Speaker 1:

you're all going to have a great career. It's an almost foregone conclusion, right With the education they have and the opportunities, like you're going to have a good career. This much extra effort, great career. This much extra effort amazing. And that's really. My encouragement to them is just always go a little bit more. Just a little bit more, because the mass population does not, your peer group is not, and if you do just that much more, you'll get where you want to be.

Speaker 4:

Hey everyone, Welcome back to another episode of Stories that Move. I'm Mason Geiger and I'm Matt Duhl.

Speaker 2:

We're thrilled to have you join us here at Dream On Studios, and today we're diving into the world of orthopedics, leadership and strategic growth with a very dear friend and special guest.

Speaker 4:

That's right. Joining us is Karen Polkinghorne, the president of Network Partners. Karen has carved a unique path with the orthopedic industry, from packaging engineering to marketing to leading the packaging and labeling divisions of Network Partners Group.

Speaker 2:

From leaving her hometown in New York to attend Michigan State University, where she didn't know a soul, to graduating as a packaging engineer and finding her passion in the life sciences industry. Karen's journey is fascinating. And, speaking of journeys, karen travels around the country with her husband, chad, and their Mercedes Sprinter RV camper, affectionately known as Buster, and we were lucky enough to have them pull into Warsaw to join us today.

Speaker 4:

It's going to be an insightful conversation about Karen's captivating twists and turns in her career and life, so let's dive in and welcome Karen to the show.

Speaker 2:

Welcome back to Stories that Move brought to you by Dream. On Studios, I'm your host, matt Duhl, with me, as always, mason Geiger. How are you doing this morning, mason?

Speaker 4:

So good and so excited for today's conversation.

Speaker 2:

Today's conversation has been in the works for months. We invited our good friend Karen Polkinghorne to be on the show and you said to me I want to do it live in the studio in Warsaw. So we have waited until the calendars could align and here we are today. So thanks so much for being here with us Well.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for inviting me. I love what you guys do here. I want to support what you're doing and I'm excited for the conversation. I have no idea where it's going to take us, but we'll get there together.

Speaker 2:

Which, as you're going to see and hear here in a little bit, that's a big deal. So I appreciate the trust that you've given us for this this moment, cause Karen is a very calculated she. She plans things better than anybody I know, so for her to trust us with this as a big deal, which is really fun. So what I was I was thinking about back about, and I think what my memory has, is that we first connected, I think on a team's call, back in fall of 2019.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so network partners, um, which, uh, at the end of this time dream on studios didn't exist. Yeah, so Mason and I were working together but had our kind of independent companies. You all were about to do a video project. You had a vendor prior to us that wasn't available and so you were looking for somebody to come in. And Tim early knew us and had met Mason, uh, at a at an event and said I think I have some guys. So he paired us up with you and we had a conversation on on teams, and what I recall about that conversation is we were talking through this video we were going to do beginning of 2020. And I said to you our pro our process is very organic, we like question and answer. And you shot right back and you said our process is we like scripted. A bit of a dichotomy right.

Speaker 2:

Yes. But, you were so kind and you were so gracious and you said I'm willing to play along. So so, anyway, we, we got to do that project together, february of 2020 in Grand Rapids, before the world closed down because of COVID um and and had a great uh opportunity to work together and uh so yeah, so I any any recall from that?

Speaker 1:

early conversation was let me see we were. We were of an advertisement of sorts, right for our leadership program.

Speaker 4:

Yes, that's correct. So we were taping in Grand Rapids. Yes, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so that's where the scripting comes in. Is you want to get your for a marketing message right? You want to get your message right. You want people to be comfortable. You want to make sure that what you're recording is what you want out there. What?

Speaker 2:

you want out there?

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, so that's why, yeah, I remember we had that conversation about one versus the other. Yes, yes.

Speaker 4:

I flashback now, remembering as you're saying this, of being on a phone call with you, just like I'm a pacer whenever I process, and just walking laps up and down at Spoonful in the office.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 4:

Of going through like understanding your viewpoint on this and it's like how the just the authenticity that comes from the interview style and trying to find like where's that middle ground that we can?

Speaker 1:

and then I think we landed, and then it ended up being a great, a great success, and so but yeah, it did, because in our world it's engineers right and they're very linear of how they think and how they want to do it, and so it. We thought it was going to help to have the script, but then the script can come across as scripted, which we didn't want. And so it was a nice blend of how we pulled all that together.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, we were able to take what was the end goal of what you were trying to draw out of them.

Speaker 2:

And then Matt was able to the interview process to be able to draw that out organically, Right and, uh yeah, and thanks to Mike's editing, Absolutely it all came together so that that project, which you know we didn't know at the time, was kind of one of our first interview moments, if you will, with Tim. And that kind of led to the conversation that brings us here today at Dream.

Speaker 2:

On Studios. So so, yeah, so absolutely um, have loved our interactions and our our opportunity to work together. So at the time, I believe you were kind of in the midst of VP of marketing and sales, up to chief commercial officer.

Speaker 1:

um, at that point, Probably yeah, 2019, 2020, ish. Yeah, and network partners group, very dynamic company. Those were the early days, right, we started in 2015. So by 2019, we had a few things figured out. The business was growing but constant change and you guys know, because you're in the same, when you're growing, you just you have to keep pivoting. Just I've always been like I'll, I'll do what the company needs me to do. And when I first started with the company, I started uh, kind of a sales lead and then I I think I was there two weeks when Tim was like, how would you like to also do marketing? It's like, sure, we could do marketing. And again it's that. It's that trust, the organic, we'll, we'll figure it out as we need to. It doesn't have to be exactly perfect on day one.

Speaker 1:

And that's when you work for an entrepreneurial company. That's kind of how it goes. That's part of the deal.

Speaker 2:

Part of the drill? Yes, part of the drill.

Speaker 1:

And so that's how it started and then moved into as more people joined the team and the organization just kind of changed. I had that chief commercial role and now I'm the president of the packaging and labeling divisions, which I'm really excited about because we call them centers of excellence. So president of the packaging, labeling, centers of excellence and, uh, that's really my background and so working with those teams and thinking about that business is very kind of great. It was a great kind of next step for me.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, awesome. So for our listeners who don't know anything about network partners, uh, give us a little bit of background and just kind of maybe the elevator pitch, in a sense, of what you all do, how you're serving the world.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so Network Partners Group is a consulting company and we support life sciences companies in very specific areas, so anything that's adjacent to the product itself, so not the product or the pharmaceutical, but packaging, engineering, labeling, regulatory affairs, quality and project management, so all of those. In a regulated industry, you need all of those elements to get a product to market, and it's not. I always say, if we were a rock band, right, we'd be the bass player, right. You need all of this support to get your lead singer out there. And so that's what we do. We come alongside life science leaders as a partner and we help them work through their critical programs, and sometimes they add us to their team because they don't have the skill set on their team or there's a specific project that they just need additional support for, and so we really come alongside them as a true partner to work on their critical programs.

Speaker 2:

Excellent. And so also share a little bit about the leadership development program, because again, that's the project we connected on. And I find that to be one of the really unique innovative aspects of your business.

Speaker 1:

So when I first started with Network Partners in 2016, I had left DuPont. I'd been there for 12 years, knew a lot of people in the industry, I've spent my entire career in life sciences and so had a network. And when I joined network partners, my phone rang consistently with people said oh great, you're a consulting company. Now this is fantastic. Here's what I need An entry-level person with experience. And there's a big disconnect there, like it's really difficult to find someone with a couple years of experience that's already working in life sciences, that will leave and come and work for a consulting company on what, at the time, was a one year contract. That does not sound like a great deal. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it's not. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And so for a period of time my phone would ring and people would need I need an entry level person, but they need to have some kind of experience two to three years experience. And I was on vacation in Arizona love vacationing in Arizona and I was at the pool and I was thinking, ah well, I wonder how much business we've walked away from this year because we didn't. We couldn't fill a need that the market is asking for. Because we couldn't fill a need that the market is asking for. And so on a yellow notepad I still have it in my office, this yellow notepad I wrote just off the top of my head the people who had called me in the past 18 months that were looking for entry level experience. And when I added up rough numbers, quick back of the envelope, it was like $4 million of what could have been potential revenue, and we were a startup at the time. We didn't have near that much business as a whole company, let alone just in packaging. And so I talked to Tim and I said I think there might be something here if we could figure out how to get an entry-level person some experience and we have amazing engineers on our team currently that could probably put together a curriculum that could train them up with some foundational knowledge that would get them functionally equivalent of a year or two of experience in a pretty short period of time. And so we pivoted and we launched this and I had a team that put together the curriculum just everything that they thought an entry-level engineer should know and we built this curriculum.

Speaker 1:

And then we tried a beta run not a guinea pig a beta test with one person from Michigan State that we had met at a career fair and he had kept in touch with me and said if you ever have something, that comes up. But we had a very difficult time putting anyone with zero experience in life sciences into a life science consulting role. So we hired Tyler Boyd and he was a Michigan State grad and he had about one year of experience, but in a different field. So he had kind of felt like he picked the wrong lane and really wanted to try life sciences. And so Tyler went through our training program and that was the proof of concept that in about 400 hours, 10 weeks of training that we could get someone who knew absolutely nothing about life science packaging and give them enough to be ready to go work ready with a client. So after we had proof of concept, then it just wrote.

Speaker 1:

Then the next class had two people, then the next class had six, then the next class had 10, then COVID hit and then we backed it back down, and then we backed it back down and then we do three at a time. So three is the minimum amount that we'll do in a class and five we've learned is somewhere three to five. That's our sweet spot. And we have two classes a year, typically Two graduating classes that we select candidates from From now up to five different packaging schools that we're working with for our program. So it's been. It's been a great success for the company, for the people. I'm always really pleased when someone finds Life Sciences and wants to stay.

Speaker 1:

There's a lot of regulations. There's a lot of you know paperwork that you have to do. But people who come in and say I want to make a difference as a packaging engineer and and they choose life sciences over, say, consumer packaging. Yeah. Yeah, that's. I always think that's a special thing when we find someone that says no, I I'm glad I learned this skill, I love it and I want to contribute to the life sciences. Yeah.

Speaker 4:

So with I mean how? Where did your love for life sciences begin?

Speaker 1:

for life sciences begin. So my first experience, uh, in packaging. I was an intern at compact computer, which is now part of hp in houston, texas, and compact at the time and certainly hp great products. But the type of packaging is cushioning and corrugated boxes and cushion curves and shock and vibe tables and cutting foam in the lab all day and I said, yeah, this is not, this is not for me. Okay.

Speaker 1:

I just I did not. I it was fine, but I didn't love it, and so the first job I took out of school was with a heart catheter company in Minneapolis Schneider and that's really where it started. And once I understood the different materials because it's all about it's engineering work so it's design, it's materials, it's equipment. There's some, there's a marketing element of it in user interface, like how's the user going to use this in a critical setting, and so pulling all that together is really what packaging engineering is all about is taking all those elements and putting them together, and so that was my first job. And then after there, I worked at Smith and Nephew Orthopedics and so designing trays and both the sterile barrier systems for total implants as well as the instrument trays that are used to put in those devices, which I now have some personal experience with.

Speaker 1:

Since my days at Smith and Nephew. So, and then it just builds from there. And in our industry it really doesn't take long to become a specialist, and I'm sure it's similar in other industries. But in packaging, once you have life science experience, whether it's med device or pharma um, you, just, you continue to build on and pretty soon you're a specialist, and then if you wanted to switch and say, well, I'm going to go do food packaging.

Speaker 1:

You wouldn't be. You wouldn't have the skill set you would need to do that. You'd have to learn a new skill set.

Speaker 4:

So it can be very specialized because what was that transition like for you, going from computer to now life science, like that kind of and where were you kind of at in your career of, yeah, being willing to make the job, like I'm going to learn something new and kind of step out into this?

Speaker 1:

so the, the life science company, the medical device company I worked for was my first real job when I graduated. So the internship gave me the, the behind the scenes of. I know I don't want to do that and I'd like to do this. And it's kind of interesting because my husband, chad, and I have the same degree from Michigan State in packaging engineering and he worked for FedEx for 33 years doing kind of what I did at Compaq. That.

Speaker 1:

I didn't like, so he loved it and was the leader of that division in FedEx all those years, and so that's what FedEx does, right, is they figure out how to get your stuff from point A to point B without breaking it, and if it needs extra cushioning, or that's what all their engineers work with their customers on. So we do the same type where we're working with clients to figure out how to get their packaging how it needs to be for the product that they're using. But it's so different whether you're in distribution or in life sciences. I mean, life sciences of course has an element of distribution packaging, but it's just one element of it.

Speaker 2:

Okay, yeah, no, I remember in some of our early conversations you were very much the person that helped me to understand the passion behind life sciences and just getting that thing of no. When you go into surgery and they're opening this package with these materials, there's big things at stake, right, and the engineering that goes behind that and the way that it serves people patients doctors, everything is is just vitally important.

Speaker 2:

So so no, I've always appreciated your, your perspective on that, and you know the ways that. Uh, yeah, now, when I step into a medical procedure like getting my appendix out, this summer I was very educated on all the things that were happening around me.

Speaker 1:

All the sterile packaging here looks good. We're good to go.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

We always, always in the industry, we say it's a good day if you, if a nurse came out of the or and we said how is the packaging? And she said I don't know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1:

That's a good day, like it shouldn't, it shouldn't be part of what they're doing. What they're doing is taking care of the patient and they shouldn't have been like, oh, I couldn't get that package open, or when I opened it, I wasn't sure if the seal was protecting the product, because it's all about keeping the product sterile In medical device. That's what we do. We're trying to keep the product sterile to its point of use.

Speaker 1:

You almost want it to be like so efficient and effective that it's not even noticed their concern is getting that patient with that patient needs, not about figuring out how to get into the package or worrying about anything to do with the packaging. Awesome.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, all right. Well, we're going to come back to some of the career pieces and some of the leadership pieces that I definitely want to unpack with you, but take us back to the beginning. Yeah, childhood for Karen. Where are you originally from? What was childhood like for you?

Speaker 1:

OK, I grew up in upstate New York, on the North end of Cayuga Lake, in the town of Cayuga. Okay. And, um, live there my entire childhood and, uh, when it was a very small town. I don't know the population these days of New York, but it's a very small town and there were two elementary schools that then merged into one high school and middle school all together, and so I graduated with a class of 103 people.

Speaker 2:

Wow, yeah so small.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, great childhood. Lots of great friends from those days that I still keep in touch with and was very into everything to do with school, loved school, I loved I was. I was a person who couldn't wait to get to school, like I really enjoyed the friends and the you know, the teachers and and it was just a great community to grow up in and my whole family lived there. My both sets of grandparents, aunts one aunt lived kind of close to the other one in Florida, but yeah, it was. I have two sisters, one older, one younger, so I'm the middle.

Speaker 1:

I'm the middle child. I don't know if people would. Sometimes people say I think you're the oldest and I'm like no.

Speaker 2:

That's so. No, I was just going to say that that's so interesting because the middle children can tend to be a little disruptive. Oh okay, and be a little disruptive, oh okay, and you know, kind of stir the pot a little bit, um, but I wouldn't I wouldn't have said that for you at all yeah yeah, yeah, did any any pot stirring for you with your and your siblings?

Speaker 1:

no, I don't think so. I mean, we, the three girls, what'd you say?

Speaker 4:

you didn't have like a rebellious stage or like no? Not me, okay, mason you know me, come on now really but a lot like you see at this, like in your career path and everything. It's like a lot of times you go through some things that like have that perspective change, that it's like now.

Speaker 1:

This is like I'm going to be detailed and strategic oh okay, if you phrase it like that, I would say um, my parents got divorced when I was six, and so at that time and in that small community, that was not common.

Speaker 1:

Sure it was it really wasn't and I remember and it's so funny, the memories that you have that like stay with you to to this day the second grade teacher who knew my mom. My mom had to write a note that I had to leave for the dentist or something right, and leave early, and so you have to give. Remember these.

Speaker 4:

I'm dating myself, but you still have to hand a note to the teacher and they would read it and say okay, you're leaving it too.

Speaker 1:

So she read the note and my mom had signed it with her new last name and in front of the entire class she kind of questioned me on this Well, what is this? Who is this? That's my mom. I know your mom and it was this very bizarre exchange in front of the entire class that my mom had a different last name, and that has stuck with me. And when we get to the part about Chad and the polking horns and all of that, I'll pick that back up. But also in that kind of era of my life is when my mom got remarried and just the whole dynamic and just all of that. As a child you don't really understand because you're not an adult yet.

Speaker 1:

So at somewhere I always knew I wanted to go to college. I wanted to be in a professional type of role. I didn't know what that looked like. My dad was an electrical engineer and I thought at one point I thought I wanted to because I didn't know of other careers. I just thought we didn't have the internet. Sorry, I just have to say I see what other people do and my dad's an electrical engineer. I guess I'll be an electrical engineer. And so my senior year of high school, my guidance counselor said Okay, we're gonna sign you up for this class and you know you're gonna learn about ohms and watts and voltage, and I thought that sounds really boring, like really boring, and that's how I found packaging, though he was like, okay, well, you like math and you like science, you like science, and so you know, there's this program at Rochester Institute of Technology, which is where my dad graduated from with his electrical engineering degree and it's called packaging engineering.

Speaker 1:

And it's this combination of all of that material science engineering, some marketing, some advertising all bolted into one. I thought, well, that sounds much better than ohms and watts and voltage because, that would not have been a good fit.

Speaker 1:

I would have lasted not even maybe day one, I don't know. And so growing up I you know, you think of, like the games you play and all of that I would. My sisters and I would play airport because we had flown to see my dad, who now had lived in California. We lived in upstate New York, so we would fly to California to see my dad and that whole experience, the airport, and hand the paper ticket and da-da-da, we thought this was great. So we would save all that and we would play airport. So I'm sure we played school and all of that like everybody else.

Speaker 1:

But we would play airport and we would play business meeting. I know we're total weirdos. We would pretend we were having a business meeting and then we would pretend we're going to go to business lunch. And this was this was our thing. We were. I didn't think it was odd, I thought it was really fun, but now that I say it out loud, we were odd, I guess it was very creative. I guess we played airport and business meeting, so here I am.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, living out airport and business meeting, yes, a lot A lot Living airport.

Speaker 1:

It was not so much fun anymore, right.

Speaker 4:

Airport is not what it used to be Like. Are you collecting your tickets?

Speaker 1:

Yes, All that like is so different. Oh, that's amazing yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:

It was a high school guidance counselor that pointed you towards the packaging engineering His daughter was at RIT and they have a big printing program at RIT and that's what she was doing. But she had found packaging but later in her college career too late to switch.

Speaker 1:

And so he happened to mention it to me and the rest is history. And well, the story really is that I started looking at and you had to send away for information. If you wanted information on a college, you had to send them a letter and then they would send you information in the mail. So I sent to RIT and in their advertising they said we're one of the top three packaging schools in the country and I thought well, who's number one? And that's where I found Michigan State. So sorry RIT.

Speaker 1:

But, and even though it was, you know, alum my dad being an alum of there I just I found Michigan State as little bit. It was a 10 hour drive from Cayuga, new York, to East Lansing, michigan. Yeah, RIT was about an hour and a half ish away and so I wanted to be a little further away. Yeah, so I did that. You know, the things you think are going to do you in are what make you grow. There's millions of books on this. And I got to Michigan State and I mean the dorm was probably bigger than my hometown. I was way out of my element, way out of my element, but you just gotta. You know, my mom dropped me off and it was see at Thanksgiving, I mean it's a 10 hour drive.

Speaker 1:

I didn't have a car, Freshman couldn't have cars, and so that whole experience was very you guys just got to figure it out and I think that just it's part of my fabric.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that I just had to figure it out. There was never a sense for you of get me out of here.

Speaker 1:

I would not be truthful if I said that never crossed my mind. Yeah, but then you know that passes.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it gets back to okay, let's figure this out, because it was hard. It was hard. I didn't realize how homesick I would be Because I thought, oh, I'm ready to. I've been playing airport and office for.

Speaker 4:

I'm ready to you know hit the road.

Speaker 1:

No, so I didn't realize how, I didn't realize what that would feel like and it's, and I didn't know any, I didn't know a soul. Yeah, you know, sometimes folks go to college and they oh, a friend or someone from high school is going to be there but I know anyone, and it was just very overwhelming oh.

Speaker 4:

I bet I mean I remember graduating how many kids who were making decisions on where they were going to school solely based on where their friends are going. It was like, oh, you guys are all going there, cool, I'll go there too. I'll go there.

Speaker 1:

They have what I want to study and so see in Michigan State because the packaging I was all in on packaging which at that time it was not common to even know about packaging and to choose that as a major, as an incoming freshman. Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

So that was those, myself and this other guy, Lee Arndt. We were there together that we had chosen packaging as our major Lee. I haven't kept in touch with him too close but he works for Procter Gamble as packaging. He's probably way up the ladder now, but yeah, so that was kind of fun. Okay, as packaging, he's probably way up the ladder now, but yeah, so that was kind of fun. And packaging, like with anything large, whether it's a massive church or whatever it is if you can break it down into your people smaller. And so the School of Packaging had great clubs. It was at the time called Packaging Society and now it's just a chapter of the Institute of Packaging Professionals and so you kind of find your people and then it seems a lot smaller and a massive.

Speaker 1:

At the time michigan state was probably 45 000 students wow it was just gigantic, gigantic, yes wow yes, I'd never been in the state of michigan and and I and I never saw michigan state until I showed up for orientation. Like I applied, I got accepted and I showed up and was like, wow, look at this, it was exciting but it was very overwhelming. Yeah, go green. Yeah, that's incredible yeah.

Speaker 4:

So, in the finding your people at Michigan State, is that where you and Chad met?

Speaker 1:

That is where we met. Yes, we met. Chad was two years older than I was in the program, so I met him my sophomore year, Is that right? Yeah, I met him my sophomore year. We went to Peck Expo in Chicago one of these packaging clubs, and you know everybody pile in a car and down to chicago and then one of the cars, while we were there, broke down and so we were on this plant tour and chad was driving this car and the it was stick shift and the cable for the. Um, what do you call it when you put?

Speaker 1:

the clutch thank you don't drive a stick anymore um. The clutch cable broke so when you went to put in the clutch there was nothing there.

Speaker 1:

And it was like oh, we got an emergency here and I remember he was so calm, Like he was so calm in that situation and he was much older and in that plant tour they were introducing to everybody and he introduced me as Kathy. So he didn't know who I was Right and I was kind of like, oh, you know, I didn't think anything of it at the time, but that's the guy that introduced me as Kathy at this plant tour. Ok.

Speaker 1:

And so I met him there and then the next year I didn't see him again and I thought he graduated. But what I didn't know is he was on his internship. So the next year I came back and the School of Packaging had a little library and I would go study in the library and he was, he was a librarian at the library and he was like hey, kathy.

Speaker 1:

No, he didn't, no he didn't say Kathy, but I remember you from the Chicago trip. I said I thought you graduated and so, long story short, we, you know we started dating and so that was my junior without have been my junior year. And he was. It was. He was fifth year senior, so it was his senior year. And uh, yeah, we've been married for 33 years.

Speaker 4:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

Yep Couple of packaging box heads, as we like to refer to each other as yes, yes.

Speaker 2:

So you mentioned before the different family dynamics, plugging horn, all that, so talk to us about that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so when we got married we were in Memphis. We lived in Memphis for six years. He was with FedEx and I was with Smith and Nephew Orthopedics. And after the wedding I remember walking through the halls and this gal from accounting stopped me and said oh, tell me about the wedding. And you know, she wanted to know all about it. My main name was Smith, so I was Karen Smith and that's how people at work knew me. And she said tell me about the wedding. And I did. And she said tell me your new last name. And I said it's Polkinghorn. And the look on her face. She said well, tell me. You didn't change your name to Polkinghorn and it hadn't occurred to me not to.

Speaker 1:

And so I said, of course, yes yeah, that's my new name and I remember walking away thinking what just happened here. And then in retrospect I thought to myself I didn't have the words at the time, of course. I thought you know what, if she knew Polkinghorn, she'd be.

Speaker 2:

I love that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that, so it ties back to that whole name thing, though, with my mom right and having different names. Yes. They were a family and we're going to have the same name and that's just how I feel about it, and everyone makes their choice to do whatever they want. And my former colleague from Smith Nephew that didn't like my new last name. Well, sorry. Right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and their wonderful family welcomed me like their own. And yeah, proud, proud of the name. It's English, it's. It has a really kind of cool history, polkinghorn yeah, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, okay, so in the midst of a long, great career in the packaging engineering, you come to Network Partners and I know you had some leadership things before that. But did you ever envision yourself in just some big leadership roles? I mean, did you see yourself as I'm an engineer? That's what I studied, that's what I studied, that's what I love. I'm, I'm aiming to be, to lead, lead the show here. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1:

Yes, uh. So I have a pivot point in 1998 where I went back and got my master's degree. So I I worked as a packaging engineer and I worked for a startup company in Denver and it made me realize I don't know anything about business, because every Wednesday the CFO would call clients and say can you please pay your invoices so we can make payroll. When I say startup, I mean start up. And I had left Smith Nephew British orthopedic company, very well established, for this entrepreneurial startup job and it was a sterile packaging manufacturing operation and, long story short, they ended up going out of business. It just wasn't a sustainable model and so I had just moved there. It just wasn't a sustainable model and so I had just moved there. I'd been there six months when it just kind of all started crumbling and I thought I cannot believe I left my job at Smith Nephew for this. But in that moment I realized I don't know anything about business. We ship product out the door every day. How is it that we can't pay our people on Friday? What could you know? Cash flow 101.

Speaker 1:

So I wanted to understand that and I liked engineering, I liked packaging engineering. But the engineering work itself I'm okay at it. I could do it, but I would never be like some of the engineers on our team. I would never be that person. So I went back to I took two years off and I went and got my MBA from University of Colorado in entrepreneurship, of all things, and really learned about startups and bootstrapping and how do you build a business from nothing. And I was very I was very passionate about it and I loved my experience at University of Colorado and that program more than I loved Michigan State. Like at Michigan State, I was on a mission. I need to get this degree, I need to get a job, I need to start making my own money. That's just right. Airports and plan office.

Speaker 1:

I need to do this. And then when I went to CU, you it was this just I the curriculum accounting. I know no one says I love accounting. I loved accounting, like I love this. There's a right answer. I just it was just. Had I found some of this stuff earlier, I probably would have been more in accounting or finance or something like that, as opposed to engineering. Okay, but again, in my little world in Cougar, new York, I didn't know what finance was as a grown up, I didn't know anyone in that field.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

And so that never even occurred to me that that would be something I would be good at. So that was my pivot point. So it really wasn't about, it was more about the business, about business. And so after CU I got into the world of sales and marketing still in the packaging world, though, so I like to call it the business side of packaging. So I worked for Perfect Seal, which then became Bemis, and so they're a materials company, and so I learned a lot about blown film and coated Tyvek and all kinds of materials that then are used by medical device manufacturers and their sterile barrier systems.

Speaker 1:

And then my career I just I kind of kept going up the chain in the the, not the value chain, but the supply chain. And so from after Bemis, I went to work for DuPont, the makers of Tyvek, for 12 years. So in that vertically integrated system the Tyvek then goes to Bemis, then goes to the Smith Nephews of the world, and so I had sat at various chairs around the table, which gave me a different perspective than a lot of other people in the industry, and I think he would tell you, but I think that's why Tim approached me for the role at Network Partners.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Because it's this very you know enough engineering to have the conversation and then the business side of it. And that's and we to this day look for people who have an affinity for the commercial side of the business to help with Network Partners Group and the commercial side of our business, but enough engineering knowledge to be able to have a very rich conversation with a client and be able to talk specifics about packaging.

Speaker 2:

That's excellent. Well, and Tim has told us, and what he says repeatedly is that you are an icon in the industry.

Speaker 1:

Oh gosh, he's way too kind. He's too kind, but this journey at Network Partners Group, it's really. I heard this recently and it so resonated with me, jessica Pagula, who was in the finals of the US Open last weekend. She had this and I don't even know that it's her that had this quote or she got it from someone else. But she said the the journey is the dream. It's not the end point, it's not. Hey, can we every day doing what we do, helping clients, seeing, you know, all of our engineers that that work with our clients and the difference that they make somewhere in that, in that chain, when the sterile product gets the patient, we've done our job, we've helped that client, that's what we do. When I look at all the people we do and we have different people, different clients who we're supporting, and all those hours everybody works every week to support those clients, I mean that that is our business in essence, right? We? We use our time and our talent to help our, to help our clients.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's so good. I think that so many people, and I think even young professionals, as they're leaning into their career, there's this search for the finish line, right, if I'm trying to arrive yes. And I love what you just said about the journey. It's the journey. What would your encouragement be to the young professional? And just in that mindset and that kind of paradigm shift.

Speaker 1:

There's certainly something to be gained in every single role that you do in your career and it's building blocks. I realize everyone wants to come in on day one and be the boss and I actually had one of our leadership program consultants tell me KP, I want your job. I said great. After about 20 years, it's all yours, you can have it. Go, build your skills, do this.

Speaker 2:

Come get it.

Speaker 1:

And if you have that aspiration, you want to. But most people it is not a linear path. You don't say I'm going to start here, I'm going to. There's side roads along the way, and you take a little side road and decide do I want to keep going or do I want to come back? And so I encourage our early career professionals to really enjoy every experience.

Speaker 1:

There's something to be learned from every client, and even within our own organization they might have different managers pretty frequently. As they switch a client project, we might switch their manager, and so we could have someone that's been with us, let's say, three or four years and have had five different managers. And I tell them this is a gift. This is a gift to be able to work for all these different people, see all these different management styles and when you get a new manager, understand how do they like to communicate? How should I communicate with them? How's this going to? And if you work for the same person your entire career? I don't know.

Speaker 1:

I just think it adds a little color to work for different people and to have that ability. It's a skill set that you can work with people, work with, work for anyone, with anyone, be part of the team. Uh see, different management styles. Okay, I like that. I'm gonna take a little sample of that and put it with a and so that's what. I really encourage them instead of thinking, oh, I have another manager again, this is a gift yes and so embrace it that way and treat it that way.

Speaker 1:

It's a learning experience, and especially early career. The more you're exposed to, the faster you learn, and I know it's hard sometimes to think of it that way, but that's that's the messaging that. When people ask me you know what do you think here? That's that's usually what I tell them. Is that's how you're going to learn. Go the furthest, the fastest is by learning, the more you're exposed to different things.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah, I love that, that mindset Cause it's I mean we had some thinking back to like Keith's conversation we had with him on the podcast and talking about? Are you going to go through it or grow through it?

Speaker 4:

And it's the mindset of that Like you. Yeah, it's the mindset of that Like you. Yeah, manager, someone new comes in and you're like I just got to get through this. I got to get through this transition. It's like what can I learn during this transition process? And seeing it as that gift like this is an opportunity to learn something new.

Speaker 4:

And even like if you've got a challenging project or client that you're working with. It's like, if you come from that perspective of like, how can I do the best with what I have in this moment and learn?

Speaker 4:

because it's all part of the journey there is no, like end point of, because so often we have that like mindset of, like here's a to b, here's what I'm trying to get to yeah and anytime that you have something that's going to take you slightly off the path of getting you to the end point what you have in your head the quickest that you see it as like it's an inconvenience. This isn't worth my time because I'm. It's keeping me away from this and really you're learning something new that's actually going to maybe get you to something that's way bigger than what you had planned.

Speaker 1:

And to that point, mason, when I worked for that company that had to make payroll right on friday by by getting clients to pay, I would never have guessed that that would have been the thing that sent me to graduate school. That made me think I don't know anything about business like, had I not had that experience which, when I was going through it, I thought it was awful horrible. And when I say awful horrible, I would come in every morning and drop my bag off back in my office and and then I would come up to the front of the building where the ladies room was and I'd go in the ladies room and I would cry my eyes out for 10 minutes.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

Every day.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

It was hard. Yeah. And I thought this is awful right. Of course you know who cries their eyes out every day and says this is wonderful, so this is awful.

Speaker 1:

I don't like this place, I don't like this company. How did I leave my you know previous role, which was a really good, I had a really good thing going, and I left an amazing manager, David Harden, who is a mentor to this day, just a wonderful leader. And so you grow in the valleys, right, we say we've read all these. You guys know, we read all these books, and that's.

Speaker 1:

You grow in the valleys and that's hard to do because when you're in a valley you just want to get out of it. You don't want to stay there. But if you can figure out how to get yourself out of it, when you look back, those when you most people, I believe when they look back through their careers and they see where were the pivotal moments, it's in the valleys. Peaks are easy. Who doesn't love a good peak, right Like it's just the easy. You know the view is beautiful.

Speaker 2:

The view is beautiful from the peaks.

Speaker 1:

But the valleys, you just think all right, you just got to dig in, have a little grit, I guess right, think all right, I just got to dig in and have a little grit, I guess.

Speaker 4:

Right, but did you have to have like? I'm just as you're saying that? It looks like visualizing like you climb the mountain, sunset, sunrise. You're looking out. It's like you're not going to have that view without those valleys.

Speaker 1:

That's right. It's like you have to have those. You can't get there without the other.

Speaker 2:

Yep, all right. So, speaking of valleys, if you're willing to talk about it. So you and I had a call scheduled in January and I went to connect to teams and five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes no, Karen, and I'm like this is something's up. This is not Karen.

Speaker 1:

She doesn't miss a meeting. I know how to play office. Yeah, she plays office. She's been playing office for a long time. She doesn't miss a meeting. I know how to play office, right, yeah, she plays office, she's been playing office for a long time.

Speaker 2:

So I sent a quick email and just said hey, karen, just checking in see if you're still good for today, and I get the out of office return. I'm on medical leave and so I freak out.

Speaker 4:

I'm just like oh my gosh, what's going on? Oh no.

Speaker 2:

Karen's dying. What's what's going on, and so the very next day you you sent a very kind email apologizing for missing our time and and filled us in on a ski accident that you had, which is I'm a Valley for uh, this year, without a doubt. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So on January 25th, I was um, I'd taken a couple of days off and we had gone up to winter park, which is our home mountain, to ski and we were in the van. We're going to stay in G lot, which is where they let fans park overnight, so we had it all planned out. It was great and I thought oh, this is so good. I, literally minutes before this happened, had the thought isn't this great? I'm taking some time. It's the start of the year. I'm taking some time, it's the start of the year. I'm taking a little time off. Team's doing great Business is great, Like it was. Just this is the time to do it.

Speaker 1:

And then, literally minutes later, I was, and I don't know how it happened exactly. People have asked me and I'm it's a little blurry, but I don't know if I was messing with my glove. I wish this was some epic story. I wish I could say oh, you should have seen the jump I took off that cornice and a little wild world of sports action. It was nothing. It was like a nothing trail.

Speaker 1:

We park up high and then we ski down to the ski lift, and so I don't know if I was messing with my glove or what I was doing, but I started to feel myself kind of spinning a little bit and I said, said I can't believe I'm gonna fall, like because you know when you're gonna fall on skis yeah, it's so crazy.

Speaker 1:

I'm on this nothing trail and I'm gonna fall on my way to the lift. This is so stupid and I fell and when I fell, my skis kind of got all wrapped up and I broke my leg and I have what is known as a tibial plateau fracture. So if your femur this is your femur and this is your tibia, where they come together in your knee joint, the top of your tibia is the plateau and it's normally kind of flat Maybe a little bit of geometry there, but it's pretty flat and I decimated. It's like this is what happened.

Speaker 1:

Oh man and I don't know how much of the story you want, but you know I had to be ambulance ride back to Denver, and Winter Park is associated with Denver Health, and so they said we're going to take you to Denver Health. Well, sky Ridge is kind of closer to my house, we live south of the city and Denver Health is a level one trauma center. That's probably where we recommend you go. And, um, yeah, well, denver health's a level one trauma center. That's probably where you you know where we recommend you go. And I said, okay, and this is the part about being in this business. It's a pro and a con. It's one of those like I wish I didn't know this, but I know this. I said, okay, well, when I get to Denver health, who is the orthopedic surgeon that's going to meet me there? And she said let me check. And she did. And she came back and she said his name is Dr Steven Stacy.

Speaker 1:

And so I'm in the, I'm in the ER at Winter Park with my leg all mangled at this point and I don't even want to, I don't even want to look at it at this point. And I said, chad, you got to give me my phone. And so I Googled Dr Steven Stacy and up he came, cause you, you have to know who you're going to get, like any profession, like we need to know. And so you know great education, biomechanical engineer from duke and military experience and very nice credentials. And then a picture of him and I said, okay, he has enough gray hair that I will allow him to work on my leg because, I know right, I didn't want either bookend I want the guy in the middle gal in the middle that you know latest technology, all that and so um.

Speaker 1:

So dr stacy and his team first put me in an external fixation device. And again, when I worked at smith and nephew and they said external fixation, I knew exactly what that meant. Yeah, I used to design the instrument trays for those barbaric looking apparati and I thought I can't believe they're putting me in an x-fix, why can't we just go in? I used to design the instrument trays for those barbaric looking apparatus and I thought I can't believe they're putting me in an X-Fix, why can't we just go in and fix it now? And they said well, they're swelling. And they gave me some excuse. And so they put me in an X-Fix, sent me home for four days this was on a Thursday, so Friday, saturday, sunday, and then the surgery.

Speaker 1:

The internal fixation was on a Monday and they went in and pieced it all back together. They said it's like putting together an eggshell. Putting it all back together, so two plates, nine screws. My X-Fix was a striker and my internal fixation was to puce synthies. So doing my part to support the life sciences industry there with my purchases, oh my goodness. And then the recovery. It's just very slow because it's no weight bearing for three months, and so I was on crutches and that's. I saw you guys at the pack out.

Speaker 4:

I saw Matt at the pack out and I was still on a crutch, and it's just.

Speaker 1:

It's just one of those. It takes time, it just takes time, but I'm on the mend.

Speaker 2:

I am on the mend. Yes, it is good to see you crutch free and walking around. So through this year you and I have had a few conversations. Talk to me about just perspective through that accident.

Speaker 1:

I am very fortunate. I have never been injured or broken a bone or had any kind of pain of any kind in my entire life Very fortunate, and so this experience gave me a lot of perspective on a couple of things. I always thought I have a huge jar of empathy for a lot of people in this world, specifically anyone you know that's having any kind of medical situation or but I have a whole new perspective for anyone in any kind of pain and anyone with a physical disability, because everything is hard yeah, yeah and you don't realize like, oh, if I want to get up and carry this, this mug, across the room, I can't do it because I have two crutches, and so humans are very adaptable.

Speaker 1:

That's the good news. Like, you figure out a way, you're like, okay, I guess I need a bag to put this in to then hobble myself to go get another cup of coffee. And we got really creative. Chad was fantastic about just figuring things out for me and getting little setups for me here and there, so wherever I went, I had everything I needed. Um, so he was fantastic and for three months, three times a day, food, beautiful food would show up in my presence and he would. He's cute, he would make it look like you know fun and stuff.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Little like I'd show you pictures. You wouldn't believe it. Believe it, oh my gosh. Who can make artwork out of a peanut butter sandwich? I don't know, but he can't but chad can and uh, he took great care of me.

Speaker 1:

Um, and then people in my network, you guys reached out, of course, just just an outpouring of love and support. It was very moving and so appreciated, cause when you're compromised like that, you just it's lonely, you know. You know you're not in your same circles, you're not doing your normal things, and so for people to reach out, it was just, it was great. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

But I pro I might've told you, matt. I don't remember. I told this to several people. I don't know if I told you this, but I said and this is when I was still just newly out of the hospital, maybe a couple weeks into this whole thing and I said I'm pretty sure this is going to go down as one of the top five very important experiences in my life.

Speaker 4:

Yes, yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because of what I learned in that moment. I never would have learned that. I wouldn't, I never I would, I wouldn't have learned that if I didn't experience it myself. Yeah, so now I used to think I was very empathetic to people, and now I have a whole new level of understanding of what that means, and so so my empathy for for folks in all different kinds of situations has just got up and that that was important for me to experience that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's good, that's so good. And I remember one of our conversations. What I heard from you was a new openness to relying on other people.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah, that was another big one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, again, you are just a brilliant person, very competent in all the things that you do and able to just. I got this. Yeah, again, you're. You are just a brilliant person, very competent in all the things that you do and able to just. I got this right. It's in your fiber, like you said, and what I heard and experienced from you is I might need a little bit of help and I'm okay with that.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I had to be okay with that. I I joke and say you know, I'm used to being Marge and in charge, and for a while there I was in charge of nothing and that's very difficult to go such a change like that to being. I have all these things, I'm responsible for, all these things that I need to do, and then someone else is going to have to do this and just to, it's a, it's a relinquishing of control of sorts, and you don't think you're a controlling person, but you do this, everyone does this. You do this stuff the way you do it right. And to have to relinquish that, um, different personality types probably handle it differently, but that was, that was difficult for me, but it was. It was one of those moments where I had a moment and said, yep, that's what's going to need to happen and I'm okay with that, it's fine it's so

Speaker 4:

good yeah through through that journey and process, were there things that you value or like? How did your value, kind of value, shift through that like new lens that you're looking through of, like this used to be something I'm like, that I have to be the one to do this and then now it's like actually no, like other people can do this and this is the thing I really need to be working or focusing on.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it definitely was a. It was a switch, it I didn't have time to gradually do this. It was a. It was just the way things happened and it was more about how I was going to accept it, because it was going to happen that way either way, and it was more about how am I going to approach this and make a good experience out of something that's a very bad experience, and I really tried to to come at it that from that perspective.

Speaker 4:

yeah, yeah so I guess on the other side because you're on the men now, because it's very like people, I think they'll go through, they'll go through something and they're just like how quickly can I get back to where I was?

Speaker 4:

before what are there? Or is there anything that you're like yeah, I really don't want to go back to where I was before. What are there? Or is there anything that you're like yeah, I really don't want to go back to that. Like that, you something that you were kind of forced to shed yeah, that now you're like, um, yeah, kind of like you know, maybe that was a good thing that happened.

Speaker 1:

I think the biggest one, mason, is that whole just letting go of certain things, um, that other people can do it doesn't have to be me and it's fine and being fine with it and accepting that. That was probably the biggest key learning I would say that came out of all this. And then just also how fragile everything is. Everything is very fragile and we go through our day and don't think much of it, and that day, certainly, I was going through my day and I mean I've been skiing for 30 years. I was gonna get on that lift. We're gonna. You know, we had the whole day planned for two days.

Speaker 4:

We had it all kind of planned out and then no different plan look down at your gloves and look down at your glove, not be be paying attention.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and and just um, how fragile it all is. And then, as we get older, really thinking about and you guys asked me, are you going to ski again next year? And the answer is no, I'm not not next year, not this coming year.

Speaker 1:

I'm not um physically the the doctor says. Surgeon says I'm fine, you know you're, you're good, you can do whatever you want to do. But it's mental at this point because I wasn't again. If I was on some crazy terrain that I probably shouldn't have been on, I would have said well, that was not very smart, I'm not going to do that again. This was on nothing terrain, this was on like nothing. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So that's the part that says it was, and people say, well, it was a really freak accident, you know, won't happen again. It's like there's no guarantee.

Speaker 1:

I mean you know you fall when you ski. That's just part of the deal, right, catch an edge, you know, or you're on terrain you shouldn't be on, or whatever it is. But falling is part of skiing and so if I'm not ready to fall again, I don't think I should be out there skiing. And I really thought it was something I would do into my eighties, and so that's a little bit of a mental shift, because this is what Chad and I right this is our our plan. This was was part of our plan.

Speaker 1:

So, just thinking about you know what? There's a bigger plan out here. I'm just got to be open to it.

Speaker 4:

Yes, so how cause? You and Chad are both, like you're very adventurous. So how are you?

Speaker 1:

kind of scratching that adventurous itch, like in this season of life. I don't. I don't see myself as very adventurous. Chad is the adventurous one and I'm along for the journey. I would never, I would never come up with the things he comes up with. I would never this van thing.

Speaker 4:

I would never have said yeah let's do that, so for our listeners unpack unpack the van thing. So you've heard about the van a little bit, but what's the?

Speaker 1:

So many years ago I'm going to go with five for the sake of the conversation Chad really started thinking about hey, what about when I retire? We should get, you know, some kind of RV and travel across the country. I thought that sounds terrible, that sounds just dreadful, and mainly it's funny. Growing up, his dad, they live in the UP and in the summer in the UP if you get behind like a class A, you're stuck, like it's too. You can't get around him. And so Chad's dad had this saying where he would say, oh, martha and John, out for there. And the first time I was in the car and he said this, I said, oh, you know them. And everyone of course laughed he's like, no, no, everyone driving an RV is Martha and John. That's dad shtick, like he just look at them and he'd make up a story about that. Oh, they got their canoes hanging off the back and they got four bikes and they're probably getting he just because it's boring sitting behind a class A RV with all the stuff hanging off it. So he would make it fun because that's who he was.

Speaker 1:

And so two years ago we decided to get a van and we, after a very long process of figuring out which one and this and what size. We had great advice from I think it was Chad's brother. He said get the smallest thing you think you can survive in, because once you get something big, you'll never go smaller. So get the smallest thing. And so we ended up with this 19-foot Sprinter van Winnebago Revel. And so now I didn't want to be Martha and John, so we're Jack and Maddie, we're the happening 2020s, so we're not Martha and John, but if I'm driving, I'm going slow. It's like, yep, you're going to have to go around me, because that's what Jack and Maddie do.

Speaker 1:

And so we started this adventure, and he really wanted to see the national parks and just see parts of the country that we hadn't explored. We've been to all the states flying, but it's different when you fly in, do business, meeting, whatever, fly out, and so he really wanted to do this driving thing, which I was. I'm not so sure about this, um, but yeah, so we have this van and we vacations or long weekends and just trying to make it work. He, of course, is retired. He has more time than I do, so he's been on more adventures than I have, but we've done a couple extended ones together. Uh, we have starlink, so thank you, elon musk appreciate that that really.

Speaker 1:

That makes it's a game changer. Yeah that's a game changer because I can keep doing what I need to be doing. You know, again he's doing what he's doing. He's the adventure. He's out doing stuff and I'll be in the van working, but that's just the way it goes.

Speaker 4:

So do you have a name for your van?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, his name is Buster.

Speaker 4:

Buster Buster.

Speaker 1:

Buster the fun bus. I don't know I got that nickname Buster, cause normally off the back right, just like most, there's bikes or something hanging off the back. That is going to be fun. So Buster's always on a fun adventure. We make it fun, love it. Coming to a town near you, coming to a town, buster, I love it.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so you mentioned the Packout earlier. So for our listeners, the Packout is a conference for packaging engineers that you, with network partners, along with four other companies, founded to be this really cool experience and we've had the privilege to come alongside and partner with you and just helping to produce the conference and so just had year number three in San Diego back in May. I heard you give a talk this year where you talked about just success and career and planting seeds and growing along the way and I think kind of the three big points out of that that you talked about, and you're talking to young packaging engineers to focus on EQ, emotional intelligence, communication and networking. Yeah, and I remember you saying something along the lines of who you are. You've gone to school, you're in this career, you're going to have a good career, but with these things you have the opportunity for a great career.

Speaker 2:

So talk about that because I think that's such a fascinating thing to me, especially when you think about that audience of engineers of you're leaning into soft skills. And you're saying soft skills really make the difference, so talk to us about that.

Speaker 1:

Yes, this is, I don't think, unique to our industry. I think this is all we're. We're trained from the time we're five years old, right, we go to school, we learn the material, we take the test, we get a grade. We advanced to the next year, to the next, like we're in this mode of learning in a very certain way, and it's all about what's your grade? What'd you get on that test? Who's the valdevictorian? Where are you in the lineup? It's, that's how we're, we we're conditioned to this. And then early career professionals they, they exit college, they are smart, they got a piece of paper that says so. Right, they're smart, they've done well their resume.

Speaker 1:

Early career professionals. They exit college. They are smart, they got a piece of paper that says so right, they're smart, they've done well their resume. They look great, everyone looks great on paper.

Speaker 1:

The education these days, people are very skilled in learning and they get out of school with their degree and the universities do not teach the things that you just said EQ, networking and communication skills and most managers, leaders of people, would tell you, if I have two candidates and they are about equal from a technical perspective whoever is the better communicator, whoever had the better EQ skills on the interview showed up on time, dressed appropriately, all those things that are very important in the business world, in the world in general. That person wins every time. Every time, and you almost would take someone with a little bit lower technical skills to have these other skills. I'm a firm believer in that. We see it in our own organization. The people who excel and who you had asked me about my career like where do you want to be? The people who you, you admire and you look up to and you look at what their skills are yes, whatever the field is, there has to be some technical acumen there, but it's the communicators.

Speaker 1:

And when I say communicators, I'm not talking about extroverts, because I'm an introvert. I'm an introvert and so this is not. You know, you have to be the life of the party communicator person and that sometimes gets confused. The extroverts, I always say are easy to love because they're so out there, right. Extroverts, I always say are easy to love because they're so out there, right. And you, you miss sometimes if you don't aren't paying attention, right. The introverts are the ones who quietly kind of you know, make things happen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I heard a podcast uh not too long ago, where you know the discussion was um hey, if you're gonna, if you're gonna, send your kids to college, you're going to encourage them. Uh, here's a couple of things to think about. You know, programming on, like you know, all the AI side of things and all that development stuff.

Speaker 2:

But then soft skills was the other, just just helping to develop because, we see such a gap in that, and we're seeing more and more of a gap in that, as we've become reliant on our devices and we've become reliant on electronic communication and Network Partners is, by and large, a remote company right.

Speaker 4:

I mean, we have offices, but very dispersed.

Speaker 2:

So how would you encourage our listeners to I mean, what are, what are steps they can take in their journey to help to develop some of these skills?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there are many, many books on all of these topics and the first step is to really just be aware that this is really important and that sometimes is in our leadership program. I had a um someone who had just joined our team and I do kind of a introduction to the company, a little business 101, and welcome them to the company, and when we stopped for the lunch break, uh, he came up to me and he said, kp, this is all really really. This is someone with a master's degree, technical degree, extremely intelligent, so this is all very interesting. This is someone with a master's degree, technical degree, extremely intelligent, so this is all very interesting. I've never thought about any of this stuff before, because we are so focused on the grades, the test, all of that, that this was an area that he just never again very technical mind and it was just an area that he never really thought about and didn't know how important it was. And so we do. We're big fans of Jodi Glickman. You know she was at the packout this year as our keynote speaker, phenomenal communicator.

Speaker 1:

This book we use, great on the Job, is her book and it really talks you through certain situations. Things like how are you going to give your boss bad news. Here's what we're not going to do. We're not going to walk in, dump it on his desk and say, whew, now it's your problem, right, we're going to think about it. We're going to go in and say, here's the problem. Here's some things that I've thought about. What do you think? Or you're going to talk with a few people before you go into the boss and deliver this news and really this kind of logical approach to think through.

Speaker 1:

Okay, how are we going to do this before? We just do whatever we think is top of mind, which might not be the right approach. Yes, so we talk about that. We talk about how to give the no news update. Right, jodi in her book says you do not want your boss to hunt you down to get an update. And you say, oh, I don't have anything Like. They just took time out of their day to hunt you down. Be proactive and, just you know, give what we call the no news update. Hey, we're still waiting on this piece of information. I have a call with so-and-so at two o'clock. I will let you know as soon as that calls over where we land. Done, it's simple.

Speaker 1:

It's simple, but it's not easy. It's one of those, the soft skills. They're very simple. Things like always be on time.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Always have a good question. You know there's a list of 10 different soft skill things that you. They're so simple but they are not easy to do consistently. Always have a positive attitude, right, yeah, are not easy to do consistently. Always have a positive attitude, right, yeah, always come with an open mind. These are, these aren't.

Speaker 4:

These are difficult to do consistently yeah, I think so much of it comes down to. It's like are you willing to put in just a little extra effort? Yes, and it's like towards like I know I need to do this or I could do this, but it's like it's hard, it's like I have to think, it's just one more thing to think, but it's like it's hard, it's like I have to think. It's just one more thing to think about and it's like but the more that you do it, the easier it becomes.

Speaker 4:

And it just becomes a part of the fabric, of kind of how you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And that's how, in the talk that I heard you give, that's how you shaped it. Again you said just this much more effort is the difference between a good career and a great career.

Speaker 1:

Right. Well, we say okay, you're all going to have a great career. It's an almost foregone conclusion, right, with the education they have and the opportunities. Like you're going to have a good career. This much extra effort, great career. This much extra effort Amazing.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's the way we it's, and it's not even that. It's not the tough stuff. It's like you can do it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Can do it. And that's really my encouragement to them is just always go a little bit more. Just a little bit more, because the mass population does not, your peer group is not, and if you do just that much more, you'll get where you want to be and kind of, you know, be willing to kind of pivot along the way. That's our other message to them is this is a journey, this is going to be a journey. There's going to be lots of side roads and, um, you know, just take it one step at a time and explore and figure out where you want to be.

Speaker 2:

And we've talked a little bit about this already. But again, one, one line that I remember you saying and you said hey, this isn't mine, I didn't make this up, but uh, failure we can do on our own. Oh yeah, the success, we need help we need help.

Speaker 1:

We need others. Yes, yeah, yeah. And when I think about my career I've now been doing this for what 30, some odd years and when you think back on your career and the moments that will stay in your memory, it's usually about things you did as a team with your colleagues, with the people you really enjoyed working with and you did something together, like you accomplished something together, and those certainly, when I look back, if I had to pick something from each company I worked at, it wouldn't be like, oh, I did this or I was on this. It would have been oh, remember the time that so-and-so and such and such and we did that and we really messed it up and then we fixed it.

Speaker 1:

It would be things like that. That's, those are the things that, that are the fabric of the, you know? I mean, I say it's a mosaic. I love mosaics. Right, tiny little pieces of different colors that, when you step back, is a beautiful picture. If they were all white, perfect, or all black, you know, or not very colorful, that wouldn't be a very interesting mosaic. And so every little, every little thing, whether it's a dark color or a light color, or a bright color or a dull color, it all helps make the picture.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. Well, Karen, thank you so much for your time and your generosity and your willingness to come to Warsaw to do this in person.

Speaker 1:

My pleasure.

Speaker 2:

It was great seeing you guys Such a blast. So, karen, for some of our listeners that may want to connect with you, or Network Partners Group and the services you all provide, what's the best way for them to connect?

Speaker 1:

Probably the easiest way is just reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm on it every day, and so I'd love to connect with anyone who wants to increase their network and talk about any this or anything else that we talked about today.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, so good. Well, thank you for who you are and what you've meant to us and our company. You have been a true friend and partner in this and somebody that I can always count on to pick up the phone and just say, hey, can we process this out? And so thank you for your generosity and the wisdom that you've gained through your career, that you've so generously shared with us.

Speaker 1:

It's my pleasure to be here today. Thanks so much, you guys. I appreciate the invitation.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for listening to stories that move. Look forward to seeing you again next time. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Stories that Move brought to you by Dream On Studios.

Speaker 4:

Make sure to subscribe so that you don't miss the next episode. And remember, if you or your organization have a story you're eager to share with the world, Dream On Studios is here to bring that story to life.

Speaker 2:

Don't hesitate to reach out. You can find us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook or visit our website at dreamonstudiosio. We understand how overwhelming it can be trying to bring your vision and story to life, but that's why we exist, and we've walked alongside hundreds of clients doing that very thing. Yeah.

Speaker 4:

We believe every story has the potential to inspire, to move and to make a difference. Let's make yours heard.

Speaker 2:

Until next time, keep moving forward and keep telling those stories that matter.

Speaker 4:

Take care, everyone. We'll see you next time on Stories that Move.